Syria's Assad used chemical weapons on his own people

i really cant make an assumption like that, sorry. they have individuals over there right? people with different opinions? i cant think as one of them on behalf of all of them.

by helping the innocent we might hurt more of them and prop up a really shady rebel group.

so guys, remember how the US is saying that people who use chemical weapons are sadistic, crazy and murderous? Well we just admitted a few days ago over 7 years ago that we did use chemical weapons on the insurgency in Iraq. The 'white phosphorous' 'mystery' has now been laid to rest, the endless excuse of just using it to 'light up the battlefield' has been obliterated. I wonder when ISrael will admit they used white phosphorous to kill palestinians? Probably around the same time they admit they have a nuclear arsenal.

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/11/17/pentagon_reverses_position_and_admits_u

  On 9/7/2013 at 12:14 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

so guys, remember how the US is saying that people who use chemical weapons are sadistic, crazy and murderous? Well we just admitted a few days ago that we did use chemical weapons on the insurgency in Iraq. The 'white phosphorous' 'mystery' has now been laid to rest, the endless excuse of just using it to 'light up the battlefield' has been obliterated. I wonder when ISrael will admit they used white phosphorous to kill palestinians? Probably around the same time they admit they have a nuclear arsenal.

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/11/17/pentagon_reverses_position_and_admits_u

 

goddamn that legitimately makes me sick.

The shit we allow to happen in our (the citizenry) name needs to FUCKING STOP.

This isn't about "humanitarian aid". I'm so fucking sick of trying to argue against that. How easily we are played into sending our sons and daughters to die for bullshit causes, to forsake our social safety net that we and past generations had solemnly dedicated themselves to supporting. All for the claim that the U.S. prevented a couple hundred deaths in the name of "freedom". We need to fucking get right. We need to get serious. And we need to realize the shit we gotta fix isn't elsewhere, it's here.

Sorry if I'm acting "irrational", but this is fucking bullshit.

John that link is from 2005, was there another revelation recently that you can direct me to?

this country and the people who defend it are rad as fuck, seriously. Can't wait for Sept 11th to roll on up, so i can do my yearly ritual of busting the fuck out of French people.

  On 9/7/2013 at 12:55 AM, DerWaschbar said:

John that link is from 2005, was there another revelation recently that you can direct me to?

no i guess it was from 2005, i thought it was a recent story. I think i got it from a friend because the white phosphorous 'rumor' has been brought into the public consciousness again. So sorry for getting riled up as if this was new information

Ah yeah. Not meaning to be a prick, was just curious. Even worse really that the information has been out for so long and has been ignored.
Edit: I should add that I had no idea it had been confirmed until you posted that. I still thought it was still being largely denied.

same. which is notable in and of itself as you just mentioned because how is it that a story like this can just be buried? So many crazy things that happened in the last decade that it's almost impossible to keep track.

Here, have some more evidence of the United States' hypocrisy on chemical warfare: http://www.policymic.com/articles/62023/10-chemical-weapons-attacks-washington-doesn-t-want-you-to-talk-about

Pretty interesting that the pentagon would say "white phosphorus isn't a chemical weapon" in that 2005 article... just like the NSA isn't "collecting" data. It's like we have humpty fucking dumpty in office over here. "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

the administrations change and so are positions in regards to use of different kinds of weapons, did obama use chemical weapons in his last 5 years ? so what hypocrisy are we talking about here ? did the obama administration support the us of iraqi chemical weapons back then ?

I was talking about the hypocrisy of a nation with a history of using chemicals against foreign nations and its own people. Not about a particular administration. I'm not trying to defend my statement in some semantic showdown, take it or leave it.

So what? I drink Coca Cola too.

  On 9/7/2013 at 5:41 PM, luke viia said:

I was talking about the hypocrisy of a nation with a history of using chemicals against foreign nations and its own people. Not about a particular administration. I'm not trying to defend my statement in some semantic showdown, take it or leave it.

how can a nation be hypocritical, isn't it a human descriptor ? it was ruled by different people and governments over the years who steered it in different directions. administrations and policies change, this one apparently has a different view of chemical weps and their usage. unless you're able to show that current gov was using or supporting the usage of those weps there's nothing hypocritical about obama's statements.

Why don't you go ahead and look up the phrase "Hypocrisy of the US" and tell me if I'm the first to have used the concept.

i don't care who used it first, im talking to you here.

Right, and I already said take it or leave it. Later, ya tedious motherfucker.

right, so it's like everything modern day germany did or said in regards for human rights is automatically hypocritical because of their past ?

that's just an idiotic notion to even post on something fleeting as an internets forum.

Uh, no, eugene. If Germany was still being run by the same political party that committed those acts, then yes, it would be a vaguely similar claim. But it's not.

Some quick news on the US' (and a bit of Israel's) use of chemical weapons from the last ten years:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breathtaking-u-s-hypocrisy-on-chemical-weapons/5348147

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/the-u-s-and-israel-have-used-chemical-weapons-within-the-last-8-years.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/army-to-be-sued-for-war-crimes-over-its-role-in-fallujah-attacks-1961475.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4440664.stm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/fallujah-birth-defects-ra_n_571119.html

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/nov/15/usa.iraq

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-forces-used-chemical-weapons-during-assault-on-city-of-fallujah-514433.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza

So, very sorry I called the US (and its close allies) hypocritical. You must be right, no nation can be held responsible for its past once the public administration changes. Once a few years pass, who cares, right? Makes sense to me. That was the other guy, not us! It's nice that the administration changes, but I'm still an American. My country still did all those things.

...I really do have other things to do though... I'd rather be thinking about McCutcheon vs FEC. Doubt there's anything I can do to influence whether the US attacks Syria. Nice arguing with you about a common turn of phrase though, eugene.

does anyone actually believe that the usa is still a democracy that represents the will of the majority of its very citizens?

also, mods can we change the title of the thread since the title is fucking evil.

even faux news knows the rebels aren't the alqaeda angels that op thinks they are.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/06/lawmakers-go-quiet-after-more-evidence-syrian-rebels-behaving-badly-surface/

  On 9/7/2013 at 6:33 PM, luke viia said:

 

Uh, no, eugene. If Germany was still being run by the same political party that committed those acts, then yes, it would be a vaguely similar claim. But it's not.

 

Some quick news on the US' (and a bit of Israel's) use of chemical weapons from the last ten years:

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breathtaking-u-s-hypocrisy-on-chemical-weapons/5348147

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/the-u-s-and-israel-have-used-chemical-weapons-within-the-last-8-years.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/army-to-be-sued-for-war-crimes-over-its-role-in-fallujah-attacks-1961475.html

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4440664.stm

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/fallujah-birth-defects-ra_n_571119.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/nov/15/usa.iraq

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-forces-used-chemical-weapons-during-assault-on-city-of-fallujah-514433.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza

 

So, very sorry I called the US (and its close allies) hypocritical. You must be right, no nation can be held responsible for its past once the public administration changes. Once a few years pass, who cares, right? Makes sense to me. That was the other guy, not us! It's nice that the administration changes, but I'm still an American. My country still did all those things.

 

...I really do have other things to do though... I'd rather be thinking about McCutcheon vs FEC. Doubt there's anything I can do to influence whether the US attacks Syria. Nice arguing with you about a common turn of phrase though, eugene.

the us isn't run by the same people with same ideologies who nuked japan or did vietnam either, the party names remained but the parties' themselves changed a lot.

i think you should hold responsible whoever was responsible, i don't see the point of seeing the whole nation as responsible, as far as i know the the use of WP in fallujah wasn't legitimized in a nation wide referendum where 100% of the people voted for it.

btw, do you also support the ancient biblical concept of generational punishment ?

(also, what's the point of posting 5 different links proving the same thing ? good ol' bibliography inflating ?)

the blame really falls on the illuminati

  On 9/7/2013 at 7:15 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 9/7/2013 at 6:33 PM, luke viia said:

 

Uh, no, eugene. If Germany was still being run by the same political party that committed those acts, then yes, it would be a vaguely similar claim. But it's not.

 

Some quick news on the US' (and a bit of Israel's) use of chemical weapons from the last ten years:

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breathtaking-u-s-hypocrisy-on-chemical-weapons/5348147

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/the-u-s-and-israel-have-used-chemical-weapons-within-the-last-8-years.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/army-to-be-sued-for-war-crimes-over-its-role-in-fallujah-attacks-1961475.html

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4440664.stm

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/fallujah-birth-defects-ra_n_571119.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/nov/15/usa.iraq

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-forces-used-chemical-weapons-during-assault-on-city-of-fallujah-514433.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza

 

So, very sorry I called the US (and its close allies) hypocritical. You must be right, no nation can be held responsible for its past once the public administration changes. Once a few years pass, who cares, right? Makes sense to me. That was the other guy, not us! It's nice that the administration changes, but I'm still an American. My country still did all those things.

 

...I really do have other things to do though... I'd rather be thinking about McCutcheon vs FEC. Doubt there's anything I can do to influence whether the US attacks Syria. Nice arguing with you about a common turn of phrase though, eugene.

 

the us isn't run by the same people with same ideologies who nuked japan or did vietnam either, the party names remained but the parties' themselves changed a lot.

 

i think you should hold responsible whoever was responsible, i don't see the point of seeing the whole nation as responsible, as far as i know the the use of WP in fallujah wasn't legitimized in a nation wide referendum where 100% of the people voted for it.

 

btw, do you also support the ancient biblical concept of generational punishment ?

 

(also, what's the point of posting 5 different links proving the same thing ? good ol' bibliography inflating ?)

 

The hypocrisy is more in the discourse. Western states codemning and wishing to punish Assad for war crimes, while providing little evidence that it was actually his regime that is guilty, while ignoring the use of WP by the Bush administration and prosecuting no one.

  On 9/7/2013 at 7:15 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 9/7/2013 at 6:33 PM, luke viia said:

 

 

the us isn't run by the same people with same ideologies who nuked japan or did vietnam either, the party names remained but the parties' themselves changed a lot.

 

i think you should hold responsible whoever was responsible, i don't see the point of seeing the whole nation as responsible, as far as i know the the use of WP in fallujah wasn't legitimized in a nation wide referendum where 100% of the people voted for it.

 

btw, do you also support the ancient biblical concept of generational punishment ?

 

(also, what's the point of posting 5 different links proving the same thing ? good ol' bibliography inflating ?)

 

ever heard about long-term strategy, eugene?

Some things get derailed because of the actions that the current administration did.

Some things get fixed by the next administration.

Some things never change. And which are those?

It's a bit semantic, but this Obama quote seems pertinent: "We are the United States of America. We cannot turn a blind eye to images like the ones we've seen out of Syria,". Images or evidence? It seems to really highlight the mechanics of how the popular opinion is formed. People wish to act before even knowing what's going. We're in a time now when the impact that media coverage had on popular opinion during Vietnam has been studied and appropriated and is now being used to sway opinion towards war.

Politicians who beat the war drum are too chickenshit to go fight themselves, yet they have no qualms about sending young men and women to die, like they're expendable pawns in their greedy, dirty game. Fuck them.

Those who do not know their history...