Guest bitroast Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 jez from peep show has replied http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/russell-choosing-vote-most-british-kind-revolution-there Reveal hidden contents Dear Russell, Hi. We’ve met about twice, so I should probably reintroduce myself: I’m the other one from Peep Show. I read your thing on revolution in these pages with great interest and some concern. My first reaction was to rejoin the Labour Party. The Jiffy bag containing the plastic membership card and the Tristram Hunt action figure is, I am assured, in the post. I just wanted to tell you why I did that because I thought you might want to hear from someone who a) really likes your work, b) takes you seriously as a thoughtful person and c) thinks you’re wilfully talking through your arse about something very important. It’s about influence and engagement. You have a theoretical 7.1 million (mostly young) followers on Twitter. They will have their own opinions about everything and I have no intention of patronising them. But what I will say is that when I was 15, if Stephen Fry had advised me to trim my eyebrows with a Flymo, I would have given it serious consideration. I don’t think it’s your job to tell young people that they should engage with the political process. But I do think that when you end a piece about politics with the injunction “I will never vote and I don’t think you should either”, then you’re actively telling a lot of people that engagement with our democracy is a bad idea. That just gives politicians the green light to neglect the concerns of young people because they’ve been relieved of the responsibility of courting their vote. Why do pensioners (many of whom are not poor old grannies huddled round a kerosene lamp for warmth but bloated ex-hippie baby boomers who did very well out of the Thatcher/Lawson years) get so much attention from politicians? Because they vote. Many of the young, the poor, the people you write about are in desperate need of support. The last Labour government didn’t do enough and bitterly disappointed many voters. But, at the risk of losing your attention, on the whole they helped. Opening Sure Start centres, introducing and raising the minimum wage, making museums free, guaranteeing nursery places, blah blah blah: nobody is going to write a folk song about this stuff and I’m aware of the basic absurdity of what I’m trying to achieve here, like getting Liberace to give a shit about the Working Tax Credit, but these policies among many others changed the real lives of millions of real people for the better. This is exactly what the present coalition is in the business of tearing to pieces. They are not interested in helping unlucky people – they want to scapegoat and punish them. You specifically object to George Osborne’s challenge to the EU’s proposed cap on bankers’ bonuses. Labour simply wouldn’t be doing that right now. They are not all the same. “They’re all the same” is what reactionaries love to hear. It leaves the status quo serenely untroubled, it cedes the floor to the easy answers of Ukip and the Daily Mail. No, if you want to be a nuisance to the people whom you most detest in public life, vote. And vote Labour. You talk of “obediently X-ing a little box”. Is that really how it feels to you? Obedience? There’s a lot that people interested in shaping their society can do in between elections – you describe yourself as an activist, among other things – but election day is when we really are the masters. We give them another chance or we tell them to get another job. If I thought I worked for David Cameron rather than the other way round, I don’t know how I’d get out of bed in the morning. Maybe it’s this timidity in you that leads you into another mistake: the idea that revolution is un-British. Actually, in the modern era, the English invented it, when we publicly decapitated Charles I in 1649. We got our revolution out of the way long before the French and the Americans. The monarchy was restored but the sovereignty of our parliament, made up of and elected by a slowly widening constituency of the people, has never been seriously challenged since then. Aha! Until now, you say! By those pesky, corporate, global, military-industrial conglomerate bastards! Well, yes. So national parliaments and supernational organisations such as the EU need more legitimacy. That’s more votes, not fewer. You’re a wonderful talker but on the page you sometimes let your style get ahead of what you actually think. In putting the words “aesthetically” and “disruption” in the same sentence, you come perilously close to saying that violence can be beautiful. Do keep an eye on that. Ambiguity around ambiguity is forgivable in an unpublished poet and expected of an arts student on the pull: for a professional comedian demoting himself to the role of “thinker”, with stadiums full of young people hanging on his every word, it won’t really do. What were the chances, in the course of human history, that you and I should be born into an advanced liberal democracy? That we don’t die aged 27 because we can’t eat because nobody has invented fluoride toothpaste? That we can say what we like, read what we like, love whom we want; that nobody is going to kick the door down in the middle of the night and take us or our children away to be tortured? The odds were vanishingly small. Do I wake up every day and thank God that I live in 21st-century Britain? Of course not. But from time to time I recognise it as an unfathomable privilege. On Remembrance Sunday, for a start. And again when I read an intelligent fellow citizen ready to toss away the hard-won liberties of his brothers and sisters because he’s bored. I understand your ache for the luminous, for a connection beyond yourself. Russell, we all feel like that. Some find it in music or literature, some in the wonders of science and others in religion. But it isn’t available any more in revolution. We tried that again and again, and we know that it ends in death camps, gulags, repression and murder. In brief, and I say this with the greatest respect, please read some fucking Orwell. Good luck finding whatever it is you’re looking for and while you do, may your God go with you. Rob Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bitroast Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 12:43 AM, zaphod said: not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand it's all a bit Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 oh yeah, that. there was a period where every time i turned on mtv an episode of that show was playing. i grew to hate it. Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 12:43 AM, zaphod said: not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand Quick note: there's a fundamental difference between political disagreement and disagreeing about what is actually real. The Russell piece was Russell talking from his arse. Or, in other words, it made no sense because it lost connection with any sense of reality regardless of ones political views. Democracy and Russells imaginary 'political' party of non-voting revolutionists imply a contradicting reality which could exist in the real world about as long as a couple of opposed quantum particles meeting each other after a big bang in the LHC. Russell doesn't make sense. Which is fundamentally different to disagreeing politically. Two people having opposite political views could still agree on the current state of reality. It's just that they have a different set of morals/norms which lead them to different ways to deal with the same reality. Russell invents some imaginary reality, which, to a certain extent, is a consequence of his political indifference. Imo. Note to USians: there's quite a few right winged Russells in todays politics in the US. Ironically, the governmental indifference of the T party is quite similar to the political indifference of Russell. Read an extra set of IMO's at this point, svp. Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chunky Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 who remembers the film Animal House where a long haired pot smokin' hippie has a discussion with his students? Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 2:26 AM, goDel said: On 11/2/2013 at 12:43 AM, zaphod said: not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand Quick note: there's a fundamental difference between political disagreement and disagreeing about what is actually real. The Russell piece was Russell talking from his arse. Or, in other words, it made no sense because it lost connection with any sense of reality regardless of ones political views. Democracy and Russells imaginary 'political' party of non-voting revolutionists imply a contradicting reality which could exist in the real world about as long as a couple of opposed quantum particles meeting each other after a big bang in the LHC. Russell doesn't make sense. Which is fundamentally different to disagreeing politically. Two people having opposite political views could still agree on the current state of reality. It's just that they have a different set of morals/norms which lead them to different ways to deal with the same reality. Russell invents some imaginary reality, which, to a certain extent, is a consequence of his political indifference. Imo. Note to USians: there's quite a few right winged Russells in todays politics in the US. Ironically, the governmental indifference of the T party is quite similar to the political indifference of Russell. Read an extra set of IMO's at this point, svp. not sure i like your tone sir. btw, i live in the us, in washington dc, have worked on capital hill, and am well aware of what's going on in our country. Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) On 11/2/2013 at 4:23 AM, zaphod said: On 11/2/2013 at 2:26 AM, goDel said: On 11/2/2013 at 12:43 AM, zaphod said: not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand Quick note: there's a fundamental difference between political disagreement and disagreeing about what is actually real. The Russell piece was Russell talking from his arse. Or, in other words, it made no sense because it lost connection with any sense of reality regardless of ones political views. Democracy and Russells imaginary 'political' party of non-voting revolutionists imply a contradicting reality which could exist in the real world about as long as a couple of opposed quantum particles meeting each other after a big bang in the LHC. Russell doesn't make sense. Which is fundamentally different to disagreeing politically. Two people having opposite political views could still agree on the current state of reality. It's just that they have a different set of morals/norms which lead them to different ways to deal with the same reality. Russell invents some imaginary reality, which, to a certain extent, is a consequence of his political indifference. Imo. Note to USians: there's quite a few right winged Russells in todays politics in the US. Ironically, the governmental indifference of the T party is quite similar to the political indifference of Russell. Read an extra set of IMO's at this point, svp. not sure i like your tone sir. btw, i live in the us, in washington dc, have worked on capital hill, and am well aware of what's going on in our country. Yeah Godel, I gotta say, man...I don't see Brand's comments or views as being out of touch with reality. Are his statements vague and optimistic? Perhaps. But he's certainly addressing the reality that I know. Edited November 2, 2013 by LimpyLoo Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 HOW DARE A CELEBRITY VOICE THEIR OPINIONS WHEN INVITED ONTO A SHOW BY PRODUCERS AND NOT BE FULLY INFORMED OF A FULL 45 POINT PLATFORM WITH LINKS TO MULTIPLE SOCIOLOGICAL THESES Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide SR4's signature Hide all signatures Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Ok, i'll retract my words on russelss reality, restate i actually love the man who is very much able to make some good points, but still think his ideas on politics, not reality in general, are mostly pointless. As far as i'm concerned. Edit: also zaphod, i understand the tone was horrid. I wasn't trying to explain us politics to people who are from the us (as i mentioned, not coincidentally....btw). I thought it was an interesting parallel. That's all. It's the indifference, which russell admits, which invalidates his opinion on politics, imo. Him being a celeb is irrelevant and merely some stupid talkingpoint from those mental young turks. Edited November 2, 2013 by goDel Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 8:12 AM, goDel said: Ok, i'll retract my words on russelss reality, restate i actually love the man who is very much able to make some good points, but still think his ideas on politics, not reality in general, are mostly pointless. As far as i'm concerned. Edit: also zaphod, i understand the tone was horrid. I wasn't trying to explain us politics to people who are from the us (as i mentioned, not coincidentally....btw). I thought it was an interesting parallel. That's all. It's the indifference, which russell admits, which invalidates his opinion on politics, imo. Him being a celeb is irrelevant and merely some stupid talkingpoint from those mental young turks. As vague as Russell Brand is being, he's hit on the answer. Now, the problem of course is implementation. How do you change things? Historically speaking, awareness is very effective. Say what you want about the 60's being a failure but many of the luxuries that we now take for granted came about from the naive efforts of the 60's. So I do believe in the power of handing out pamphlets and chanting slogans and all of the supposed silliness of the 60's. iMO of course Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide SR4's signature Hide all signatures Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 12:43 AM, zaphod said: not sure i agree with that any more than i agree with brand At least the other fellow advocates participating in the process. Brand seems to be saying just do fuck all and everything we will be irie. Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide all signatures 백호야~~~항상에 사랑할거예요.나의 아들. Shout outs to the saracens, musulmen and celestials. Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2083840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 http://www.trueactivist.com/gab_gallery/inspirational-russell-brand-compilation-awakened-man/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_bKQXmvdr8o Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide Adieu's signature Hide all signatures There will be new love from the ashes of us. Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2096213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 12:46 AM, bitroast said: it's all a bit I remember that show. Does that make me old? On 11/2/2013 at 6:51 PM, SR4 said: Most valid post this thread Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide ambermonk's signature Hide all signatures On 10/21/2015 at 9:51 AM, peace 7 said: To keep it real and analog, I'm gonna start posting to WATMM by writing my posts in fountain pen on hemp paper, putting them in bottles, and throwing them into the ocean. On 11/5/2013 at 7:51 PM, Sean Ae said: you have to watch those silent people, always trying to trick you with their silence Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2096216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 All that video needed was an angelic choir. I like Brand. I think he's saying some of the right things and his heart's in the right place. It's good to have a high-profile figure saying these things through a shitty media. But that video particularly makes him look like a Messiah. Actually, who am I to say? Maybe that's a good thing for us. Carry on. Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2096256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 We should take any ally we can You're gonna need someone on your side (And here I am And here I am Well you don't need to look so pleased) Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2096385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A/D Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 I agree that we need anyone we can telling us to be true to ourselves and to be one with nature and all that. But the voting thing is a compete facepalm. I agree strongly with the following David Foster Wallace quote: "If you are bored and disgusted by politics and don't bother to vote, you are in effect voting for the entrenched Establishments of the two major parties, who please rest assured are not dumb, and who are keenly aware that it is in their interests to keep you disgusted and bored and cynical and to give you every possible reason to stay at home doing one-hitters and watching MTV on primary day. By all means stay home if you want, but don't bullshit yourself that you're not voting. In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard's vote." Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
patternoverlap Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 On 11/2/2013 at 6:51 PM, SR4 said: MAGIC MIRROR Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide patternoverlap's signature Hide all signatures New Prints Available Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 On 11/24/2013 at 12:22 PM, Gary C said: All that video needed was an angelic choir. I like Brand. I think he's saying some of the right things and his heart's in the right place. It's good to have a high-profile figure saying these things through a shitty media. But that video particularly makes him look like a Messiah. Actually, who am I to say? Maybe that's a good thing for us. Carry on. Messiahs are only bad when they are false and their ideas are distorted and used for repression. When a messiah can give their message directly. When distortion and manipulation are not possible then the message can stay honest and positive. Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide Adieu's signature Hide all signatures There will be new love from the ashes of us. Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hma Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Fox news destroys Russell: shame they didn`t have the man himself. Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I wonder how much better off America would be if pundits didn't convince people that Socialism was this horrible thing "that's killed hundreds of thousands of people." The guy who said that must know how misleading that is. It's like saying moustaches kill millions of Jews. Anyway, I find it tragic that people in this country equate Capitalism with freedom and patriotism and Socialism is this dark force that's trying to infiltrate our great nation. Edited November 27, 2013 by LimpyLoo Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm also irked at the (rather ubiquitous) notion that when you're young you have all these lofty ideals about how the world should be but then you grow up and embrace reality. My father and some older people I know try to lay that shit on me sometimes. "You'll see when you get older." Like when you grow up then the only thing you'll care about is not having your paycheck gauged by Uncle Sam. The skies are scorched here in the United States of Koch, Inc where thanks to unfettered capitalism unions are abolished and the minimum wage is 40cents (to keep America competitive!) and damn lazy socialists feel too entitled to get a job but hey at least President Gingrich kept my taxes down. /schizophrenic rambling Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 On 11/27/2013 at 1:02 AM, zemudene said: Fox news destroys Russell: shame they didn`t have the man himself. This is disgusting. These people are disgusting. They represent the past. I couldn't even finish it. It is dribble. They are designed for thought control. Their points are not even valid nor do they even acknowledge what Brand is saying. They dodge the important issues by making personal attacks. It is smoke and mirrors. They are part of a system that is under attack, because people can freely access information. Because people like Brand can be heard in living rooms all across the globe in seconds.These people exist to make the lives of others worse. They are human garbage. He would have put them all on their knees and they would have licked the verbal precum dripping from his intellectual phallus. In my opinion all economic systems are viable. It is just that they all get muddled with greed and corruption. Capitalism works well until the corporations control the government. It is interesting how quickly they are able to do it. /end rant cheers Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Hide Adieu's signature Hide all signatures There will be new love from the ashes of us. Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I agree* *except for the part about all economic systems being viable. I don't think laissez-faire capitalism could ever, ever work. Imagine if we lifted all regulations (e.g. minimum wage, safety standards, environmental standards, etc) and just let things fall where they fall? What are the chances that the result wouldn't be a total nightmare? Thanks Haha Confused Sad Facepalm Burger Farnsworth Big Brain Like × Quote Link to comment https://forum.watmm.com/topic/79441-russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-host/page/8/#findComment-2097211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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