Research Shows That Cocaine and Heroin Are Less Addictive Than Oreos

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:14 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:07 PM, fiznuthian said:

Interesting that sugar keeps being mentioned..

What about the refined flour and cheap oil? They're also the primary ingredients in an oreo, and 99% of processed junk food for that matter.

 

Refined flour should be obvious. It very quickly metabolizes to glucose and ends up in the blood. And while it's fun to blame saturated fats for atherosclerosis, the polyunsaturated fats in large quantity (yay cheap oil) are by far the fatty acid most prone to lipid peroxidation. In other words, what leads to damaged cell membranes.

 

As for the the addictive nature of food here is something to consider. Refined junk foods represent an arms race of flavor among food manufacturers who strive to compete for customer sales. It's possible that by engineering increasingly more palatable and rewarding food, food manufacturers have been toying with the neural reward circuits that dictate human food behavior. There are similarities among mammalian brains and rats are no exception. People often can't help themselves and will more often than not opt for well known and memorable brands with powerful flavors they recognize. The classic Oreo is a great example.

 

Also, how rewarding or "addictive" a food is largely depends on the whole of it's composition. Sugar definitely helps, but it's worth considering the texture, the crunch, saltiness, the smell, how it looks, etc.. Processed food manufacturers often spend a lot of money perfecting sensory stimuli. It's common to see a plethora of ingredients that do not add flavor but nonetheless make for more enjoyable product.

 

 

This is a good point. Also good to note what an issue we have in our society with foods containing so many unhealthy things.

 

Yes, it is true. I honestly believe the situation has multiple factors going on. Some more observations:

1) Refined wheat and cheap oil accounts for the majority of calories in cheap junk foods, not necessarily sugar itself

2) The human body displays a tremendous metabolic capacity for carbohydrate whether sucrose, glucose, or fructose

3) The metabolic capacity for sugar is largely dependent on the condition of cells and their mitochondria.

4) Cheap oils contain an abundance of non-saturated fat that is at best important for the regulation of inflammation, and at worst damages cell structure

5) What a cheap trick.. It's interesting that say, an Oreo, is so devoid of nutrients but also extremely hard to resist. How are we so innately motivated to consume a food which we know is fucking terrible for us?

[youtubehd]WakpunDsXD4[/youtubehd]

In case anyone thinks i'm full of shit.

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:29 PM, fiznuthian said:

5) What a cheap trick.. It's interesting that say, an Oreo, is so devoid of nutrients but also extremely hard to resist. How are we so innately motivated to consume a food which we know is fucking terrible for us?

 

Hidden consequences.

The shitty thing about the way our brain is setup is that immediate pleasure usually trumps distant abstract consequences...not because we're bad or dumb, but because of how those two things affect us differently.

In fact, I think that divide accounts for most problems in the world.

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:29 PM, fiznuthian said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:14 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:07 PM, fiznuthian said:

Interesting that sugar keeps being mentioned..

What about the refined flour and cheap oil? They're also the primary ingredients in an oreo, and 99% of processed junk food for that matter.

 

Refined flour should be obvious. It very quickly metabolizes to glucose and ends up in the blood. And while it's fun to blame saturated fats for atherosclerosis, the polyunsaturated fats in large quantity (yay cheap oil) are by far the fatty acid most prone to lipid peroxidation. In other words, what leads to damaged cell membranes.

 

As for the the addictive nature of food here is something to consider. Refined junk foods represent an arms race of flavor among food manufacturers who strive to compete for customer sales. It's possible that by engineering increasingly more palatable and rewarding food, food manufacturers have been toying with the neural reward circuits that dictate human food behavior. There are similarities among mammalian brains and rats are no exception. People often can't help themselves and will more often than not opt for well known and memorable brands with powerful flavors they recognize. The classic Oreo is a great example.

 

Also, how rewarding or "addictive" a food is largely depends on the whole of it's composition. Sugar definitely helps, but it's worth considering the texture, the crunch, saltiness, the smell, how it looks, etc.. Processed food manufacturers often spend a lot of money perfecting sensory stimuli. It's common to see a plethora of ingredients that do not add flavor but nonetheless make for more enjoyable product.

 

 

This is a good point. Also good to note what an issue we have in our society with foods containing so many unhealthy things.

 

 

Yes, it is true. I honestly believe the situation has multiple factors going on. Some more observations:

 

1) Refined wheat and cheap oil accounts for the majority of calories in cheap junk foods, not necessarily sugar itself

2) The human body displays a tremendous metabolic capacity for carbohydrate whether sucrose, glucose, or fructose

3) The metabolic capacity for sugar is largely dependent on the condition of cells and their mitochondria.

4) Cheap oils contain an abundance of non-saturated fat that is at best important for the regulation of inflammation, and at worst damages cell structure

5) What a cheap trick.. It's interesting that say, an Oreo, is so devoid of nutrients but also extremely hard to resist. How are we so innately motivated to consume a food which we know is fucking terrible for us?

 

This is all stuff that I have been dealing with on my current diet. Basically, I have had to relearn how to feed myself. It really is very easy to eat the wrong things. There are so many small things that industrialized food manufacturing has done that is bad for us.

like I implied before we can't prove everything but at least we could be calling Nabisco a bunch of scummy drug dealers with some certainty

I wonder how addictive like, SWEARING is because my brother manages to fit it into every tense and part of speech ever invented

it would be awesome if drugs were legal and they were marketed like cookies

uncle grandma's old fashioned homestyle crystal meth

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:52 PM, Ragnar said:

I wonder how addictive like, SWEARING is because my brother manages to fit it into every tense and part of speech ever invented

it would be awesome if drugs were legal and they were marketed like cookies

 

uncle grandma's old fashioned homestyle crystal meth

btw I miss the 90's where people would actually do social commentary on these sorts of things Slurm Cola etc.

also in response to other post I mean EXACTLY like this

must evoke warm fuzzy memories from every orifice

see also old coca-cola santa claus ads

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:54 PM, Ragnar said:

btw I miss the 90's where people would actually do social commentary on these sorts of things Slurm Cola etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlIaown6Wpw

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:54 PM, Ragnar said:

btw I miss the 90's where people would actually do social commentary on these sorts of things Slurm Cola etc.

 

also in response to other post I mean EXACTLY like this

 

 

 

must evoke warm fuzzy memories from every orifice

 

see also old coca-cola santa claus ads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oExU8wPDpyA

  On 10/16/2013 at 11:52 PM, Ragnar said:

I wonder how addictive like, SWEARING is because my brother manages to fit it into every tense and part of speech ever invented

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-we-swear

  On 10/16/2013 at 10:53 PM, acroyear said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 10:51 PM, Joyrex said:

I think the fact sugar is so overabundant in so many of our food products these days is the reason diabetes and other related diseases is on the rise.

 

If heroin or coke were cheap and legal, I think we'd see our emergency centres flooded with people suffering withdrawal or people overdosing due to the ease of access.

 

If sugar was illegal, substitutes would be found (hello, high fructose corn syrup).

High fructose corn syrup IS sugar.

 

No, it's not - well, depending on what kind of sugar we're talking about - HFCS is technically classed as a sugar, but it is not at all similar to pure cane sugar. Also, the process of manufacturing is different and produces vastly different items chemically, and more importantly, how those chemicals react with your body.

I'm not saying pure sugar is any better than HFCS, but ask me which one I would pick over the other, and it will be sugar every time. Sugar is natural, HFCS is not.

The word 'addiction' is not neutral. Not only is it subjective, but the use of the word implies or assumes certain things about what it means to live in a state of dependency.

One problem comparing heroin and sugar is the sickness that comes when you quit heroin, constant spasms, discomfort, depression, sleeplessness, plus adjusting to the reality of a neglected life, body, teeth... The effect on your nervous system especially is not really comparable in any meaningful way to sugar.

Like other popularly used psychological terms and classifications like dyslexia, ADD, personality disorder, I sometimes wonder what the effect of these words entering common use is. What does addiction MEAN? What does depression mean? Is it different from sadness and despair? Why do we assume that misery is an unnatural state? What is dyslexia? Why would humans universally naturally be lexic? What is ADD? Is it different from being excitable and bored?

I am not saying people don't need help, I'm saying if we are going to talk about how to help, we need to understand these things more broadly and in context.

If I'm wrong, please set me straight - am just thinking aloud to be honest.

edit: unfortunately, being violent also relieves stress and pain and anxiety.

Id say water is more addictive than heroin. I bet you none of you could last a week cold turkey.

bleh

that whole bottle of dressing will probably be used

that image is actually more disturbing than druggies tbh

  On 10/17/2013 at 12:03 AM, hoggy said:

The word 'addiction' is not neutral. Not only is it subjective, but the use of the word implies or assumes certain things about what it means to live in a state of dependency.

 

One problem comparing heroin and sugar is the sickness that comes when you quit heroin, constant spasms, discomfort, depression, sleeplessness, plus adjusting to the reality of a neglected life, body, teeth... The effect on your nervous system especially is not really comparable in any meaningful way to sugar.

 

It seems like people really just wanna see drugs as insidious and sugar as innocuous. And I think that's part of the strange phenomenon where people think the world is exactly as it should be. And I think that has to do with how our brains try to find ways to expend the least amount of energy through stasis and routine.

  On 10/17/2013 at 12:02 AM, Joyrex said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 10:53 PM, acroyear said:

 

  On 10/16/2013 at 10:51 PM, Joyrex said:

I think the fact sugar is so overabundant in so many of our food products these days is the reason diabetes and other related diseases is on the rise.

 

If heroin or coke were cheap and legal, I think we'd see our emergency centres flooded with people suffering withdrawal or people overdosing due to the ease of access.

 

If sugar was illegal, substitutes would be found (hello, high fructose corn syrup).

High fructose corn syrup IS sugar.

 

No, it's not - well, depending on what kind of sugar we're talking about - HFCS is technically classed as a sugar, but it is not at all similar to pure cane sugar. Also, the process of manufacturing is different and produces vastly different items chemically, and more importantly, how those chemicals react with your body.

 

I'm not saying pure sugar is any better than HFCS, but ask me which one I would pick over the other, and it will be sugar every time. Sugar is natural, HFCS is not.

 

Any sources for this?

As far as I know, HFCS comes in varieties all of which are varying ratios of water, fructose, and glucose. Sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. The two most common are HFCS 55 (55% fructose, 42% glucose) and HFCS 42 (42% fructose, 53% glucose).

P.S. I just ordered a huge slutty pizza and my mouth is literally watering B.F. Skinner-style.

I tell myself I can eat endless amounts of rubbish just because I'm vegan. Straight-up addict behaviour.

I got out of rehab for heroin AND cocanie recently. I was in there 33 days plus 5 days of medical detox. When I quit using (this is not my first rodeo) I usually gain 50 pounds from eating unhealthy. About a week ago I decided to start eating healthier by going on a raw food diet. Within the first day I was having intense cravings for fatty sugary food. While mind you it's a little less physically intense than heroin withdraw it's still extremely difficult. We have become tolerant from many years of convenience. Even right now I crave bad food. I've been clean (off herion and coke) since my last relapse for over a month and still look forward to the next time I can use. Just like when I choose to eat healthy I look forward to the next time I can eat a pizza.

  On 10/17/2013 at 1:53 AM, MastaN8 said:

I got out of rehab for heroin AND cocanie recently. I was in there 33 days plus 5 days of medical detox. When I quit using (this is not my first rodeo) I usually gain 50 pounds from eating unhealthy. About a week ago I decided to start eating healthier by going on a raw food diet. Within the first day I was having intense cravings for fatty sugary food. While mind you it's a little less physically intense than heroin withdraw it's still extremely difficult. We have become tolerant from many years of convenience. Even right now I crave bad food. I've been clean (off herion and coke) since my last relapse for over a month and still look forward to the next time I can use. Just like when I choose to eat healthy I look forward to the next time I can eat a pizza.

If you make sure you are getting enough good fat in your diet and calories you should not crave bad food. If you are craving sugar eat some berries or some pure chocolate (70% or better).

  Quote

 

On one side of a maze, they would give hungry rats Oreos and on the other, they would give them a control – in this case, rice cakes. (“Just like humans, rats don’t seem to get much pleasure out of eating them,” Schroeder said.) Then, they would give the rats the option of spending time on either side of the maze and measure how long they would spend on the side where they were typically fed Oreos.

 

[...]

They compared the results of the Oreo and rice cake test with results from rats that were given an injection of cocaine or morphine, known addictive substances, on one side of the maze and a shot of saline on the other. Professor Schroeder is licensed by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to purchase and use controlled substances for research.

The research showed the rats conditioned with Oreos spent as much time on the “drug” side of the maze as the rats conditioned with cocaine or morphine.

...While I think this is an interesting topic, that's kind of a lame experiment imo...

yeah if you eat healthy but crave fat and sugar, you probably aren't actually eating healthy