How does the World view America these days?

  On 8/1/2018 at 11:17 PM, hello spiral said:

'Western'

  On 8/1/2018 at 11:03 PM, hello spiral said:

I'm with eugene tbh

In Italy they sometimes put the 10% tip on the bill without even asking.

In Germany it's polite to tip but not obligatory. Depending on what kind of restaurant you are in of course. Usually you round up to an amount that makes it easy to return the change as you normally don't pay with credit card (often that's not even possible). Waiters and waitresses are paid better here so you tip at around 5 - 10%

Totally agree with what Eugene and others said. Are there examples of countries that have moved to abolish it (as in legislated/regulated) or is it up to the individual restaurant/service provider etc to make that move?

Edit: because I can't see most individual companies making that move unless they're uber successful and progressive. Also in the US countries where that is still the predominant model is massive competition in the services sector a factor in keeping that system in place? How many restaurants etc make such a small margin that a fair wage would put them out of business? 

It's a cultural thing and shouldn't be regulated by law I think. Of course there should be a minimum wage. I've heard that in some states of USA there are laws that subtract an estimated amount of tips from the minimum wage so that waiters sometimes get paid around 2 dollars per hour plus tips. If that's true it sounds like a pretty retarded way. Why should customers of a restaurant pay the restaurant employees wages?

On a second thought waiters actually can make good money. If it's a cultural obligation to tip around 20% waiters can get tips of 30 dollars per table easily if prices are high enough. Makes it a well paid job at least in a lot of restaurants in big cities. No?

  On 8/2/2018 at 2:47 AM, darreichungsform said:

Why should customers of a restaurant pay the restaurant employees wages?

because the restaurants need to make as much profit as possible with the least amount of overhead- i.e. pay their employees very little and charge as much as possible for the food they're serving.

amazon does the same thing with it's warehouse employees and if they get injured, it just cuts them loose and let's the general public (their customers) pick up the tab on crowd funding.

also let's not forget our fast food chains that have really broken things down to a science in 'the art of screwing every but themselves'

I think the standard argument is that, in industries where customer experience is critical for repeat sales (IE restaurants), the variable/incentive of higher tips motivates those providing the experience to provide the best possible (aka dangling carrot). By providing a higher wage, the incentive to provide the best experience possible is reduced. No different than offering performance bonuses I guess.

=/

edit: to be very clear I'm not saying I agree. Just that I BELIEVE that's the standard argument.

  On 8/2/2018 at 3:42 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

I think the standard argument is that, in industries where customer experience is critical for repeat sales (IE restaurants), the variable/incentive of higher tips motivates those providing the experience to provide the best possible (aka dangling carrot). By providing a higher wage, the incentive to provide the best experience possible is reduced.

that's complete bullshit if that's what people argue. it works if you want to create a horrible world where people have to hustle in a perpetual rat race and work themselves to death to survive rather than one in which people can live comfortably and contribute to society out of a sense of good will because they enjoy what they do. so yeah, it's an argument used by uber-capitalistic suit cunts.

pay a liveable wage that increases in line with the cost of living. it's not rocket science. then tipping becomes a way of saying thank you rather than an uncomfortable and awkward necessity to help struggling service industry workers survive.

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:03 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 8/2/2018 at 3:42 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

I think the standard argument is that, in industries where customer experience is critical for repeat sales (IE restaurants), the variable/incentive of higher tips motivates those providing the experience to provide the best possible (aka dangling carrot). By providing a higher wage, the incentive to provide the best experience possible is reduced.

 

that's complete bullshit if that's what people argue. it works if you want to create a horrible world where people have to hustle in a perpetual rat race and work themselves to death to survive rather than one in which people can live comfortably and contribute to society out of a sense of good will because they enjoy what they do. so yeah, it's an argument used by uber-capitalistic suit cunts.

 

pay a liveable wage that increases in line with the cost of living. it's not rocket science. then tipping becomes a way of saying thank you rather than an uncomfortable and awkward necessity to help struggling service industry workers survive.

 

I agree. The only variable I'm not sure of is how fine a margin these companies operate on, understanding that a number of mom/pop establishments might just be scraping by. If providing a higher wage with no tip system puts a number of companies out of business than nobody wins. Can think of the tip system as a consumer funded subsidy I guess. All by-products of capitalism and related competition?

^ then that's a broken system. not paying a decent minimum wage that adjusts for inflation should not be considered an option for viable businesses that aim to continue operating sustainably and ethically. unless, you know, you're actually choosing to create a socioeconomic system that devalues and destroys life. the onus is on government and business to work together to avoid that, not for capital/the haves to continue crushing labour/the have-nots and pretending that that's just how it's gotta be.
 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:15 AM, Stickfigger said:

Stop it Usagi. Your truth bombs are thread killers.

my bad  

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:23 AM, usagi said:

^ then that's a broken system. not paying a decent minimum wage that adjusts for inflation should not be considered an option for viable businesses that aim to continue operating. unless, you know, you're actually choosing to create a socioeconomic system that devalues and destroys life. the onus is on government and business to work together to avoid that, not for capital/the haves to continue crushing labour/the have-nots and pretending that that's just how it's gotta be.

Well yeah man. No contest from me, that's 100% accurate. But the reality is that many of these systems are broken systems. I guess what I'm asking is how do you change from the existing tip based system to a higher base rate without making a shit ton of people unemployed/homeless etc in the "short term" (long fucking term for those that end up jobless and homeless), given elasticity in the services market is incredibly high?

"Here's a tip: get a real job that pays a living wage!"

*throws ice water with ice in server's face*

That's my new tipping policy.

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:27 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:23 AM, usagi said:

^ then that's a broken system. not paying a decent minimum wage that adjusts for inflation should not be considered an option for viable businesses that aim to continue operating. unless, you know, you're actually choosing to create a socioeconomic system that devalues and destroys life. the onus is on government and business to work together to avoid that, not for capital/the haves to continue crushing labour/the have-nots and pretending that that's just how it's gotta be.

 

Well yeah man. No contest from me, that's 100% accurate. But the reality is that many of these systems are broken systems. I guess what I'm asking is how do you change from the existing tip based system to a higher base rate without making a shit ton of people unemployed/homeless etc in the "short term" (long fucking term for those that end up jobless and homeless), given elasticity in the services market is incredibly high?

 

worker protection laws

Elaborate?

I 100% support the sentiment I'm just unsure of how to make the crossover without fucking a number of people that are dependent on it the way it is now. 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:27 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:23 AM, usagi said:

^ then that's a broken system. not paying a decent minimum wage that adjusts for inflation should not be considered an option for viable businesses that aim to continue operating. unless, you know, you're actually choosing to create a socioeconomic system that devalues and destroys life. the onus is on government and business to work together to avoid that, not for capital/the haves to continue crushing labour/the have-nots and pretending that that's just how it's gotta be.

 

Well yeah man. No contest from me, that's 100% accurate. But the reality is that many of these systems are broken systems. I guess what I'm asking is how do you change from the existing tip based system to a higher base rate without making a shit ton of people unemployed/homeless etc in the "short term" (long fucking term for those that end up jobless and homeless), given elasticity in the services market is incredibly high?

 

divert ridiculous public spending in other areas (defense) into a program to support workers and businesses that operate on this crippling model and create a path away from it through better policy. more broadly, having a government with its priorities right in the first place, that sets humane policies, stands independent from business interests, is capable of asserting its authority over them, and promotes a culture of ethics in business and elsewhere.

(lol what am I saying this is the America thread)

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:53 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:27 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 8/2/2018 at 4:23 AM, usagi said:

^ then that's a broken system. not paying a decent minimum wage that adjusts for inflation should not be considered an option for viable businesses that aim to continue operating. unless, you know, you're actually choosing to create a socioeconomic system that devalues and destroys life. the onus is on government and business to work together to avoid that, not for capital/the haves to continue crushing labour/the have-nots and pretending that that's just how it's gotta be.

 

Well yeah man. No contest from me, that's 100% accurate. But the reality is that many of these systems are broken systems. I guess what I'm asking is how do you change from the existing tip based system to a higher base rate without making a shit ton of people unemployed/homeless etc in the "short term" (long fucking term for those that end up jobless and homeless), given elasticity in the services market is incredibly high?

 

 

(lol what am I saying this is the America thread)

 

Nail on the head. lol. 

Nah I hear you. But that exact suggestion is what gets the muricans' into a furor, socialism communism etc etc. 

There's a reason these systems persist, that systematically funnel certain people and demographics into low paying jobs etc. 

What's the reason?

  On 8/2/2018 at 5:48 AM, hello spiral said:

What's the reason?

Ayn Rand’s untreated urinary tract infection.

^ lol

https://youtu.be/U0doq2bNiDo

SEATTLE - An African-American woman says Puget Sound Energy emailed her a racial slur to use as the temporary password to her online account.

Erica Conway believes the insult was deliberate and wants the company to get to the bottom of it.

Related Headlines Governor and veterans search for homelessness solutions Survivors give emotional testimony at hearing regarding child sex crimes Seattle becomes first in country to require standard minimum wage for disabled “I clicked “forgot password” and got a temporary password from PSE and it was capitol N-I-G-G-A and I was quite shocked.”

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/pse-sends-racial-slur-to-black-woman/803894220

https://youtu.be/dvsewamPTxQ

https://youtu.be/tjIzTz1Gr7g