How does the World view America these days?

  On 8/24/2018 at 1:13 AM, zaphod said:

Sorry yeah I mean the uae

Seems like a place lots of trumpoids would like to live.

There was an article on radio 4 this morning citing Russian social media meddling as (one of) the causes behind this stupid anti vaccination movement

Nah, that's 100% American dumbassery.

we have these dumbassess here as well, btw. mostly religious fruitcakes. but it seems to grow bigger in numbers. it's more common than just the US being silly, i'm afraid.

The "death" shirt definitely should have been positioned last for maximum impact.  "Learning disabilities" just doesn't have any shock value if it's placed after "death".  Terrible composition.

“Brain damage” yes obviously they were all vaccinated

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he's been fired

something pleasantly intimate about his eyes

  On 8/25/2018 at 4:48 AM, Salvatorin said:

something pleasantly intimate about his eyes

he's one of us.. we are all the same. we are all connected. the fart is universal. this could be fully understood in any place in the world. fart is funny. fart is freedom. fart is the unity we all seek. 

The irony..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice

yeah, I'm sure the us were pushing skepticism on the scientific validity of vaccines in pakistan and afghanistan.

The thing though is that the motivation behind the us is pretty obvious. Us were/are fighting extremism. Regardless of whether their methods were good or not. Even if you disagree with their methods, you can understand why they targeted certain regions.

Now ask yourself why Russia is targeting the west. Is the relationship russia-west similar to us-extremism? Russias excuse for diong this information war is that others are doing it as well. But the irony with your example is that the us targeted regions where they were actually in a war. With troops on the ground and all that. Stuff with bombs and bullets. So, the question becomes, is russia fighting a war with the west? Does it want to? What the hell does Russia want?

Mind you, i'm not pulling justifications out of my ass to defend what the us has been doing. It's just that i can understand why and see what they were trying to achieve. When it comes to Russia, i've got an idea as well. It's just that the context of their methods is completely different. Haven't seen any russian tanks rolling through the streets of new york lately.

  On 8/26/2018 at 8:09 AM, goDel said:

yeah, I'm sure the us were pushing skepticism on the scientific validity of vaccines in pakistan and afghanistan.

 

The thing though is that the motivation behind the us is pretty obvious. Us were/are fighting extremism. Regardless of whether their methods were good or not. Even if you disagree with their methods, you can understand why they targeted certain regions.

 

Now ask yourself why Russia is targeting the west. Is the relationship russia-west similar to us-extremism? Russias excuse for diong this information war is that others are doing it as well. But the irony with your example is that the us targeted regions where they were actually in a war. With troops on the ground and all that. Stuff with bombs and bullets. So, the question becomes, is russia fighting a war with the west? Does it want to? What the hell does Russia want?

 

Mind you, i'm not pulling justifications out of my ass to defend what the us has been doing. It's just that i can understand why and see what they were trying to achieve. When it comes to Russia, i've got an idea as well. It's just that the context of their methods is completely different. Haven't seen any russian tanks rolling through the streets of new york lately.

The US isn't fighting extremism per se. Actually it was the US who supported the talibans in the 80s so that they can fight the Russians and created that extremism problem in the first place. Everyone is just shitting on this region

Is the point of all these whataboutisms that it's OK what Russia is currently doing? Also note that we could endlessly seek for examples of what the US has been doing. But this Russian program is not just aimed at the US. It's also Europe.

So, when it comes to countries like Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Greece, Spain, ... what kind of whataboutisms can you find which could justify Russia pushing their pro-chaos, pro-stupidity propaganda programs through the social networks? 

Again, the easy thing is to endlessly point fingers at the US. But I don't consider that a valid argument at all, tbh. It's just a poor excuse. And I don't need to defend the US at all, to make my argument stand on its own legs either. IMO

  On 8/26/2018 at 2:04 PM, darreichungsform said:

The US isn't fighting extremism per se. Actually it was the US who supported the talibans in the 80s so that they can fight the Russians and created that extremism problem in the first place. Everyone is just shitting on this region

Breaking news from October 2001! US funded and in ways created the Taliban that has attacked the US!

The US is fighting extremism. The US is also supporting extremism. One doesn't negate the other, it just means we're playing short games and long games all the time and often haphazardly or dangerously meddling in other people's business as it may help us and our friends or harm enemies and their friends. There are contradictions between many of these things, especially when viewed over the span of decades. It doesn't mean that we are not now in ways fighting against extremism, perhaps the same groups we had hands in creating. 

The "region" is in equally confusing ways both trying to drive us away as well as beg us to stay. It's insanely confusing and doesn't make much sense no matter which way you come at it from. 

  On 8/26/2018 at 2:21 PM, goDel said:

Is the point of all these whataboutisms that it's OK what Russia is currently doing? Also note that we could endlessly seek for examples of what the US has been doing. But this Russian program is not just aimed at the US. It's also Europe.

 

So, when it comes to countries like Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Greece, Spain, ... what kind of whataboutisms can you find which could justify Russia pushing their pro-chaos, pro-stupidity propaganda programs through the social networks? 

 

Again, the easy thing is to endlessly point fingers at the US. But I don't consider that a valid argument at all, tbh. It's just a poor excuse. And I don't need to defend the US at all, to make my argument stand on its own legs either. IMO

Yeah, the whataboutism is a pretty baseless and simplistic argument. Generally comes from places of ignorance, which is fine, but a bit boring. It's not that such things should be ignored, it's that their relevance often has much, much less influence on the situation than it may seem.

However, pointing fingers at the US for the things the US is doing is always a valid argument. The US is indefensible at times and unworthy of defense at others, we do lots of dumb, dirty, rotten shit. The context of why these things are being done, not just the direct actions of them (usually), that's more enlightening and most interesting. The larger conversation of 'why is the US doing it but other countries aren't, even though they sometimes want the results and benefits' is also a rich and deep place of discussion...a bit beyond my depth tbh tho. 

I'm not sure why you read what I said as whataboutism. I just stated that the US doesn't per se fight extremism, sometimes they make use of it (e.g. in South America). Also Pakistan and Afghanistan don't equal extremism. There are extremist groups in those regions, but why would that justify spreading misinformation about vaccines? To fight extremism? Makes no sense

!? Who said the US was spreading misinformation about vaccines in pakistan and afghanistan?

  On 8/26/2018 at 4:52 PM, darreichungsform said:

I'm not sure why you read what I said as whataboutism.

I mention Earnest Voice because it's an actual attempt to create a weapon out of propaganda. The only intended use that we know of is to combat extremists, but like most US programs, it's held secret and no one really has any idea what it is used for. There may be other programs that we know of, but no one would know it anyway. Considering the US involvement in the election of Yeltsin in 1996, I think it's healthy to approach US intentions with a bit of skepticism. Even the CENTCOM commander is openly fearful of Russia like many of our politicians. 

On the other hand the Internet Research Agency is quite small. Funny how a small troll factory pot stirring on social media makes Americans so paranoid. You can read about the indictments here: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/rosenstein-mueller-indictment-russia/553601/

You're welcome to disagree, but the allegations in my opinion are not terribly profound. It's a far cry from nation state cyber warfare. Americans themselves post magnitudes more complete bullshit on social media everyday and if anything they are just adding a little bit to the stupid-stream.

Anyway, beyond US propaganda, it is worth considering that the United States is and has been interested in regime change around the globe. For better or worse I guess. We've made ourselves a target.

Mass shooting happening right now in Jacksonville Florida. 

FFS.

  On 8/26/2018 at 6:56 PM, agaricus said:

I mention Earnest Voice because it's an actual attempt to create a weapon out of propaganda. 

 

You're welcome to disagree, but the allegations in my opinion are not terribly profound.

 

Anyway, beyond US propaganda, it is worth considering that the United States is and has been interested in regime change around the globe. For better or worse I guess. We've made ourselves a target.

Right, but just dropping a link with an 'the irony...' sure seems to be whataboutism (like darreichs dropping of knowledge 'oh did you know US created the Taliban? hm...') on its face. No one is arguing the validity of facts that America is participating in propaganda of its own. We also don't want other people pushing theirs on us. We're definitely deserving of people trying to fuck with our elections just as we've done many times elsewhere. It's fair. But also, we're not going to just sit back and go 'ha, okay, turnabout there you done us Russia, cool lol guess we sorta asked for it' at least officially, the agencies have to react and do their thing. Not saying ANY of this makes much 'sense' logically (it's war, after all), just that it's expected. 

  On 8/26/2018 at 8:59 PM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

Mass shooting happening right now in Jacksonville Florida. 

 

FFS.

Bet the 'ban video games' idiots are getting their first boners in years right now.

It was being streamed on Twitch when the gunfire started