Go Corbyn

  On 7/1/2016 at 8:13 PM, caze said:

 

  On 7/1/2016 at 1:58 PM, Alcofribas said:

"jews control the media" is indeed an anti-semitic trope. but that guy just accused one individual of working with the Telegraph. you'd have to be really certain he knew she was Jewish and that he was making his accusation based upon that fact and not, as he said, bc he says he saw her receive something from the telegraph. He never said anything about a media conspiracy and she had no right to be outraged whatsoever, the most generous interpretation is that she was oversensetive due to the subject of the conference but the man clearly made no "verbal assault" and leveled zero "anti-semitic slurs." you'd like Corbyn to pander to this manufactured controversy bc of your bias against him. as I see it he spoke out quite clearly against anti-semitism and doesn't need to waste his breath on this petulant bullshit. and your outrage that that protestor had no place being there is irrelevant, people grand stand to preach a cause wherever the hell they'd like even if it's not on topic.

 

To a limited extent I agree with you that Corbyn backpedaled on the "Islamic states" comment but not at all bc it was a "dog whistle to his anti-semitic core" (although I'm willing to read any research you have on that topic). Unfortunately, conflating all Jews with Israel is a common tactic amongs Zionist and pro-Israel fanatics when they wish to deflect criticism of the country. If you follow the issue at all you'll be aware of this, it's a debate that's been going on for decades and there are books written about this "new anti-semitism." So at its core his comment seems to speak to this issue and debunk a premise that both racists and Zionist apologist share in common. Perhaps it's true that Corbyn is some secret anti-Semite who intended to make coded commentary of an anti-semitic nature at a public conference about the dangers of anti-semitism but somehow I doubt it. His analogy was certainly bound to offend people and perhaps your suggestion about the America analogy would have been easier to understand but in no way does it amount to a serious controversy nor was it anit-semitic.

 

I don't believe for a second that he didn't know who she was, that website you linked earlier even had a conspiracy article dedicated to her, every online comments section I've come across has quickly jumped to denigrate her as some zionist plant in the labour party, this is obvious common 'knowledge' to these people. And he didn't just say she received something from them, he said she was working hand in hand with the Telegraph (in order to undermine the labour party, that bit was before the start of that video you linked). That is a clear use of that particular racist trope.

 

The fact that you go on to complain about Zionists show you're part of the problem here. Zionism is simply the belief in right of the state of Israel to exist, this isn't an extremist position, and it's something that's enshrined in international law. Whether extremist Israelis use claims of anti-semitism to attempt to shut down debate or not is not the point here, the point is that many on the far-left really are anti-semitic, believing in all kinds of ridiculous conspiracy theories about jews and their plans for world domination. Groups like Momentum and the SWP are full of these people, and they're currently doing their best to infiltrate the Labour party.

 

this seems like another instance in which a thread could go way off topic so i'll try to be brief. you keep mentioning "conspiracy theories" while simultaneously making un-verified accusations about a swelling anti-semitism in the left and rather than providing any hard evidence you're just talking about how you "don't believe" that guy (bc of an unrelated website and some internet comments you've read, naturally), or that corbyn meant his comments as a "dog whistle" for the nefarious hordes of anti-semites at his base.

your meandering commentary about zionism aside, the fact remains that exploitation of "new anti-semitism" for political influence is a serious problem and that's exactly what we're seeing here. if you have some concrete evidence for this infiltration of anti-semitic conspiracy theories into mainstream politics please do share. but time and again this has been proved to be a pathetic political tool. even in the present instance this is the "anti-semitic slur" that has amounted to a "hateful" "verbal assault":

“I saw that the Telegraph handed a copy of a press release to Ruth Smeeth MP so you can see who is working hand in hand. If you look around this room, how many African Caribbean and Asian people are there? We need to get our house in order.”

please

coincidentally, i just read this article last weekend and it appears quite sensible and relevant:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-stern-weiner-norman-finkelstein/american-jewish-scholar-behind-labour-s-antisemitism-scanda

head, stuck in sand.

Sand tho

Go! Corbyn

Go, Corbyn

Go Corbyn!

Co Gorbyn

Godspeed You! Black Corbyn

The the whole corbyn conflating Israel with ISIS is bollocks though, total spin. The point was Israeli gov's actions give cause to rising anti semitic feeling, in the same way isis actions give cause to rising anti Islamic feeling. He wasn't saying Israel is like isis for fuck sake, he was naming the 2 international things that are driving up racist sentiment against those two groups.

But yeah that aside the cunt needs to go. I get he was democratically elected leader, but the MPs were also democratically elected in a much more significant and er..democratic election no? Without their support there's no fucking opposition. Exactly when we need it most

  On 7/2/2016 at 8:41 PM, Amen Warrior said:

The the whole corbyn conflating Israel with ISIS is bollocks though, total spin. The point was Israeli gov's actions give cause to rising anti semitic feeling, in the same way isis actions give cause to rising anti Islamic feeling. He wasn't saying Israel is like isis for fuck sake, he was naming the 2 international things that are driving up racist sentiment against those two groups.

 

oh right sorry, super anti-semitic invasion of mainstream british politics.

lol

Is head stuck in sand an upgrade or downgrade from naive?

you can be naive & still show leadership

this is where Corbyn has failed & his timid Remain campaign, along with Cameron pledging a referendum to appease the right wing of his own party in the first place, 2 massive factors in this shit show

Labour are all but done as a political force, for anything, & w/Chilcot out soon i pray justice finally catches up with B.liar

the way Labour have run our own assembly govt, eg: appalling education results show why, rightly or wrongly some folks ran out of patience & voted leave to stick it to Labour

a vacuum is never good

  On 7/3/2016 at 5:31 AM, chenGOD said:

Is head stuck in sand an upgrade or downgrade from naive?

it's somewhere quite in the vicinity of conspiracy theorist imo

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14594947.The_coup_against_Corbyn_was_planned_to_stop_him_calling_for_Blair___s_head_after_Chilcot/?ref=fbshr

?

^ Something relevant mentioned on WikiLeaks' twitter:

"#Corbyn coup is a forced move for Blairites. #Chilcot on July 6. MPs who pushed Iraq war face ruin and risk charges if leader talks it up."

https:// twitter . com/wikileaks/status/747691284165500929

Another article here

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/28/truth-behind-labour-coup-really-began-manufactured-exclusive/

nice conspiracy theory, doesn't explain the fact that it's not just the Blairites that have abandoned Corbyn, and not only has his support amongst the leftier labour MPs dissolved almost entirely, but even his support amongst union members seems to have radically dissipated since the referendum. the union leadership still supports him, but if they were to put it to a vote I don't think they'd be able to any more. it also doesn't make sense for another reason, why would the current batch of MPs give a shit if the report was critical of Blair? the vast majority of them had no positions of power at the time, the worst they would have to answer for would be voting for the war, but pretty much everyone else did as well, so that would hardly matter. many of them weren't even MPs at the time. you really think they'd jeopardise their careers just to save Blair's reputation?

it's true that there are a group within the PLP that have opposed Corbyn from the start, they have done so primarily for ideological reasons. the current situation has gone beyond that though, they rest of them now realise they have no hope of any electoral success with him at the helm. it's gone far beyond his domestic policies for them at this point (which is why we've seen multiple overtures to retain his policy platform with him resigning). they've had a chance to see how him and his cabal operate up close now (milne, mcdonnell, livingstone, various external groups with no history of labour affiliation), no surprise they've found out they're completely incompetent. his failure during the referendum, and their realisation that he probably really doesn't want britain to be in the EU in the first place, was the last straw.

and on Salmond... it's important to remember that Corbyn remaining in power suits his purposes for two reasons, first a weak labour party keeps the SNP the dominant force up north, and second Corbyn's probably pro-Scottish independence (he's pro united-Ireland as well, and a republican), or at the least indifferent to the prospect (it'd be one less thing to worry about down south, and his positions are closer to those of the SNP than anything in mainstream english politics).

if he survives long enough to put the knives into B.Liar, post-Chilcot, then goes, i'd give him an ounce of respect

he's hanging on by his fingertips tonight. first vote of the evening was on whether the main vote (whether he is automatically on the ballot or not) would be by secret ballot or not went 17-15 for, which isn't what the Corbynistas were hoping for. recent polling suggests he doesn't have much right to be confident even if he did manage to get on the ballot though.

...lives to fight another day.

various acquaintances have been heralding Corbyn as a man of principle recently, arguing its a Murdoch/Blairite conspiracy to get him ousted

as i see it, if he cant lance a Tory govt publicly splitting over Brexit, he should resign

only until Labour split and new form of electable Left-wing politics emerges, removed from the stain of B.liar, would i ever consider voting for such candidates

lol

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/23/jeremy-corbyn-virgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

  On 8/23/2016 at 4:51 PM, caze said:

lol

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/23/jeremy-corbyn-virgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

He should have got on our train from Swindon to Cardiff when we went to see Ireland play in the rugby world cup.

4 of us had to stand in the toilet it was that rammed.

this is not remotely surprising. he is, after all as politician with a PR team and advisors behind him who will of course set up photo opps and the like. JC does apparently seem to have convinced the less cynical amongst us that he's a different kind of MP...i think people who have perhaps been around the block a few more times realise that they're all cut from the same cloth and haven't ever been convinced by corbyn's pious rhetoric. i do not remotely trust this guy, or any other politician. vote bollocks.