Swans' Michael Gira accused of rape by singer Larkin Grimm

------

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:17 PM, juiceciuj said:

uh... if it happened as described how would that not be rape?

The description isn't full, details seem carefully selected and contradictory as maitake noted above. The situation itself sounds like a typical drunken sex incident. It could easily have been a misunderstanding (in her own words, she spoke indistinctly when inviting him to bed, they were both supposedly half-conscious - she was, at least, so she couldn't assess his condition). A lot of accidental sex could be seen as rape, since consent does not come in a form of an actual spoken out agreement, it's a game of gestural interpretations, sometimes without much foreplay.

I don't want to dissect it further, the context gives away a certain far-fetched and overdramatized narrative and shout out to Kesha doesn't help.

  On 2/26/2016 at 1:34 PM, fletcher said:

Hope this is all lies and the new Swans album gets released on schedule.

seriously

this is not cool

If it's true, it's true.

If it's not, it's not.

Doesn't matter what he looks like or how his music sounds.

Will be interesting to see what Mrs Giraffe presents.

  On 2/26/2016 at 6:51 PM, maitake said:

From Jennifer's FB comments:

 

  Quote

 

Sarah Rupp this post is gross as hell. accusing a woman of being too mentally unstable to have been raped is wrong. what larkin wrote about michael has a great deal of level-headedness, clarity, and even understanding: if 1 in 5 women have been raped, 1 in 5 men are rapists. people can't consent to have sex when they are drunk or unconscious.

Alright guys, clearly one of us has to be a rapist. Just fess up already so watmm can punish you

I'll say nothing about the case, but that amazing claim on the correlation is a big fucking lol.

flol

There are still people in this world that think syllogisms are valid arguments

Read a bit more into this and /mu/ was talking about this a lot last night, the details of her story don't add up and her statements about the incident just seem...off. She seems like a bit of a nutjob and may just be jumping on the current rape accusation social bandwagon against Gira just because her own success didn't quite work out. It would be quite an opportune time to take such slanderous actions against him right before the new album comes out.

And the honest truth is, even if Gira is guilty, I'm still a fan of the band, and it wont stop me from re-visiting past releases. Separate the art from the artist.

  On 2/26/2016 at 8:55 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 6:51 PM, maitake said:

From Jennifer's FB comments:

 

  Quote

 

Sarah Rupp this post is gross as hell. accusing a woman of being too mentally unstable to have been raped is wrong. what larkin wrote about michael has a great deal of level-headedness, clarity, and even understanding: if 1 in 5 women have been raped, 1 in 5 men are rapists. people can't consent to have sex when they are drunk or unconscious.

Alright guys, clearly one of us has to be a rapist. Just fess up already so watmm can punish you

I'll say nothing about the case, but that amazing claim on the correlation is a big fucking lol.

 

yeah, only wanted to post that too; what a fucking bullshit.

Cosby did it

Been a fan of Swans for a while (those who haven't listened to any albums are indeed missing out imho, try the latest one (To Be Kind), The Seer or Soundtracks For The Blind if you want some REALLY good experimental rock music) but it's indeed unwise to say anything about this at this point.

That being said, Gira seems anything unlike a rapist to me - but hey, I only know the man by his music and somewhat unintentionally funny Facebook posts from time to time.

  On 2/26/2016 at 10:50 PM, ncrtx said:

Been a fan of Swans for a while (those who haven't listened to any albums are indeed missing out imho, try the latest one (To Be Kind), The Seer or Soundtracks For The Blind if you want some REALLY good experimental rock music) but it's indeed unwise to say anything about this at this point.

 

That being said, Gira seems anything unlike a rapist to me - but hey, I only know the man by his music and somewhat unintentionally funny Facebook posts from time to time.

What does a rapist seem like?

Good point. What I meant was that I always get the feeling he's (naively) earnest all the time. With his head in the clouds, wouldn't hurt a fly etc.

Don't know why I wrote that tbh, you can indeed never tell. I unironically apologize, the main message of my post was to encourage people to discover Swans hehe.

  On 2/27/2016 at 12:20 AM, ncrtx said:

Good point. What I meant was that I always get the feeling he's (naively) earnest all the time. With his head in the clouds, wouldn't hurt a fly etc.

 

Don't know why I wrote that tbh, you can indeed never tell. I unironically apologize, the main message of my post was to encourage people to discover Swans hehe.

More importantly, we all have capacity for good and evil within us. No one is pure.

This is kind of a digression, but I feel when we transition from an "alcohol society" to a "cannabis society" we will see a marked decrease in these specific types of "drunken" "date-rapey" "ambiguous consent" types of sexual assault problems. Alcohol can really make a beast of people. Gira could be an amazing and beautiful person, but Gira like all of us, is still a spiritual child, and as it is with children, they have a tendency to lose their way much easier. Also, alcohol is potentiator for this type of spiritual confusion, because it really does dim the light within all of us. I'm not saying go easy on him or whatever, if he did in fact commit this act, but I have not seen another substance turn men and women into beasts the way that alcohol has the capacity to do. From a somewhat scientific standpoint it makes sense too, humans are often battling their reptilian impulses in order to maintain and advance their higher levels of being. The "human" part of them if you will--The thing that separates us from lower levels of consciousness, so anything that "dims the light" on that, so to speak, is potentially quite hazardous.

'low that spirit chat, blud.

  On 2/26/2016 at 8:55 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 6:51 PM, maitake said:

From Jennifer's FB comments:

  Quote

Sarah Rupp this post is gross as hell. accusing a woman of being too mentally unstable to have been raped is wrong. what larkin wrote about michael has a great deal of level-headedness, clarity, and even understanding: if 1 in 5 women have been raped, 1 in 5 men are rapists. people can't consent to have sex when they are drunk or unconscious.

Alright guys, clearly one of us has to be a rapist. Just fess up already so watmm can punish you

I'll say nothing about the case, but that amazing claim on the correlation is a big fucking lol.

 

I feel like someone needs to start delivering Stats For Noobs classes aimed at the general public so that we don't see such a high incidence of people misusing them. so few people know how to use stats appropriately, it's crazy.

i guess he is the result of a violent collision of tone deafness and ego

puts up troll shield

  On 2/27/2016 at 1:23 AM, sheathe said:

 

i guess he is the result of a violent collision of tone deafness and ego

puts up troll shield

yeah i spoke to him once after a gig, pretty cold guy

i have never listened to his music before that video so my opinion of his music means nothing, but he does seem kinda of ragey/rapey there,

BUT as artists we must purge ourselves of our worst through art, right?

lol that's p mild mannered tantrum. poor babies had to hear an old man use the f-word.

  On 2/26/2016 at 6:55 PM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 6:51 PM, maitake said:

From Jennifer's FB comments:

 

  Quote

 

Sarah Rupp this post is gross as hell. accusing a woman of being too mentally unstable to have been raped is wrong. what larkin wrote about michael has a great deal of level-headedness, clarity, and even understanding: if 1 in 5 women have been raped, 1 in 5 men are rapists. people can't consent to have sex when they are drunk or unconscious.

 

Alright guys, clearly one of us has to be a rapist. Just fess up already so watmm can punish you

 

not just some random, the accuser Grimm herself has said that too:

 

 

  Quote

I am not in this for vengeance. I am not angry. I do not want Michael Gira to have his life destroyed. If one in four or five women has been raped, we have to acknowledge the possibility that one in five men might be rapists. What are we going to do with them all? Send them to jail for 10 years and cut off their dicks? NO. It is the whole culture that has to change. We have created this epidemic of harassment and disrespect and violence together. We have to end it together.

 

lel

 

Bumping this reply because I think a couple of you read the comment I quoted and thought it was Grimm.. The one I quoted was not hers, just a comment beneath her facebook post. But as TSG pointed out she said the exact same thing, but worse.

The "1-in-5" stat is bogus. It's one of those "don't swim for 30 minutes after eating"-type memes that keeps getting perpetuated.

http://time.com/3633903/campus-rape-1-in-5-sexual-assault-setting-record-straight/

Rape stats are indeed nauseating, but luckily they're not "1-in-5" nauseating.

so now the guy issued a sort of non-denial.

I.e. he doesn't literally say he did it, but says "it was a mistake".

it's the worst really.

Like "I muredered somebody" turns into "someone's life was taken"

srsly tyat guy is cancer