Swans' Michael Gira accused of rape by singer Larkin Grimm

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:00 AM, phling said:

so now the guy issued a sort of non-denial.

I.e. he doesn't literally say he did it, but says "it was a mistake".

it's the worst really.

 

Like "I muredered somebody" turns into "someone's life was taken"

 

srsly tyat guy is cancer

Where was this posted?

nevermind: http://pitchfork.com/news/63799-swans-michael-gira-issues-statement-on-larkin-grimm-rape-accusations/

Also do the guy a favor and post what he actually said instead of biting on 4 words.

  Quote

 

Eight years ago, while I was still married to my first wife, Larkin Grimm and I headed towards a consensual romantic moment that fortunately was not consummated. As she wrote in her recent social media postings about that night, I said to her, "this doesn't feel right," and abruptly but completely our only intimate encounter ended. It was an awkward mistake.

Larkin may regret, as I certainly do, that the ill-advised tryst went even that far, but now, as then, I hold her in high esteem for her music and her courage as an artist.

I long ago apologized to my wife and family and told them the truth about this incident. My hope is that Larkin finds peace with the demons that have been darkening her soul since long before she and I ever met.

what does "it" refer to exactly? the alleged penis-in-vagina incident or the "consensual romantic moment"?

considering she stated that "this doesn't feel right" was what he said when she woke up while he was fucking her, it's pretty clear no?

No it's not clear phling. She was too drunk too walk, yet has vivid recollection of the entire thing.

She has a history of convictions about feminist fact poop and thinks 1/5 men are probably rapists.

She makes a reference to a celebrity who lately doesn't appear all that honest about a fucking thing.

I can think of very few, if any, people who make accusations on facebook of all places. The perfect place to sponge attention.

People post shit on facebook to get noticed, to be validated. If her concerns were about rape, she should consult a fucking lawyer. Or better yet, just confront the man himself. Or maybe she tried this and Gira wasn't having any of it? Michael has been seemingly trying to get away from this woman and move past the ISOLATED incident.

If it's true anyway all he did was attempt to have sex, make it in once, immediately felt guilty and fucked off. He didn't continue, he didn't throw her around and force her onto the bed. As for "waking up to a penis inside me" the girl was shit faced drunk. Who the fuck knows what kind of conversations took place that night.

If anything we're still stuck at a 50/50 chance of either side of the story being true. Just cut it out with the stupid "he looks angsty and haggard, rapist fuk"

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:31 AM, maitake said:

No it's not clear phling. She was too drunk too walk, yet has vivid recollection of the entire thing.

She has a history of convictions about feminist fact poop and thinks 1/5 men are probably rapists.

She makes a reference to a celebrity who lately doesn't appear all that honest about a fucking thing.

 

I can think of very few, if any, people who make accusations on facebook of all places. The perfect place to sponge attention.

People post shit on facebook to get noticed, to be validated. If her concerns were about rape, she should consult a fucking lawyer. Or better yet, just confront the man himself. Or maybe she tried this and Gira wasn't having any of it? Michael has been seemingly trying to get away from this woman and move past the ISOLATED incident.

 

If it's true anyway all he did was attempt to have sex, make it in once, immediately felt guilty and fucked off. He didn't continue, he didn't throw her around and force her onto the bed. As for "waking up to a penis inside me" the girl was shit faced drunk. Who the fuck knows what kind of conversations took place that night.

 

If anything we're still stuck at a 50/50 chance of either side of the story being true. Just cut it out with the stupid "he looks angsty and haggard, rapist fuk"

I think there are two possibilities here: a) she was raped, or b) she's been hanging out on Tumblr recently...

I swear to god Tumblr scares me as almost as much as nazis and the KKK...the ideas about consent are truly horrifying...for instance, the idea of "retroactive consent withdrawal" is a real thing that real people believe (and use those exact words)...

I hate to say this, but if she has a history of posting Tumblrisms, then I would seriously be suspicious of her take on things...pretty much like if a white supremacist said he was mugged by a bunch of black dudes

I don't mean to sound alarmist, but Tumblr psychology is some scary shit...reminds me of Scientology...it's a cancer, and it's spreading

/Zeff-esque rant

true, coming out with that stuff on Facebook is weird.

she may be "complicated", and he is too probably, and whatever happened between them probably is too.

what do you make of his non-denial statement though?

If I were falsely accused of rape, I'd make sure to express that I 100% didn't do shit.

In my book, fucking an unconscious person is rape.

I dunno, still feeling that there is a certain vibe of "no waaayy he's a rapist because I want the new Swans album" in here and it's awkward

It sounds like he's saying they had consensual sex

Obviously if she was asleep and he just up and had sex with her, then yeah obviously that's rape in any book

But it sounds like he's implying that they mutually, consciously and consensually had sex

I don't think he's agreeing with the 'she was asleep' bit

Can't speak for the other dudes but I am not even a fan. I don't follow anything he does nor do I know much of anything about him and his life.

My main issue is the accuser raises red flags that should be taken seriously.

Regret sex is certainly a thing. Have known many men who in a drunken stupor landed in bed with a girl he'd never like all that much otherwise.

I guess as men we just deal with it. Norms, whatever..

Funnily enough I have also met girls who accidentally had sex and regretted it.. I don't recall their attitude towards it being so harsh as to be called rape. Some even laughed it off as the things that sometimes happen when your brain isn't all there.

But hey I don't get piss drunk and hang out with car salesmen in their office with them, then wonder why the next day there's a new car in my driveway that I didn't agree to. Come to think of it, i'd never get drunk at a place that forces me or other people to watch after me to begin with. Fuck these people. It's not anyone else's responsibility to drive you home after the fact.

You know what really disturbs me? Actual rape, when men are aggressive, or even sometimes manipulative friends who won't fucking stop despite plea. These women have it the worst. As the definition of rape broadens and starts crossing into regret sex you're going to start seeing a lot of men going to prison for not being graceful in their approach.

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:30 AM, maitake said:

Regret sex is certainly a thing. Have known many men who in a drunken stupor landed in bed with a girl he'd never like all that much otherwise.

I guess as men we just deal with it. Norms, whatever..

 

Funnily enough I have also met girls who accidentally had sex and regretted it.. I don't recall their attitude towards it being so harsh as to be called rape. Some even laughed it off as the things that sometimes happen when your brain isn't all there.

 

But hey I don't get piss drunk and hang out with car salesmen in their office with them, then wonder why the next day there's a new car in my driveway that I didn't agree to. Come to think of it, i'd never get drunk at a place that forces me or other people to watch after me to begin with. Fuck these people. It's not anyone else's responsibility to drive you home after the fact.

 

 

Your posts are starting to worry me

I don't know if it's a language thing or what

But "accidentally" having sex? I can't even guess what that would mean

And the car salesman metaphor is a bit "I mean hey, I would never wear a short dress and then..."

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:47 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:30 AM, maitake said:

Regret sex is certainly a thing. Have known many men who in a drunken stupor landed in bed with a girl he'd never like all that much otherwise.

I guess as men we just deal with it. Norms, whatever..

 

Funnily enough I have also met girls who accidentally had sex and regretted it.. I don't recall their attitude towards it being so harsh as to be called rape. Some even laughed it off as the things that sometimes happen when your brain isn't all there.

 

But hey I don't get piss drunk and hang out with car salesmen in their office with them, then wonder why the next day there's a new car in my driveway that I didn't agree to. Come to think of it, i'd never get drunk at a place that forces me or other people to watch after me to begin with. Fuck these people. It's not anyone else's responsibility to drive you home after the fact.

 

 

Your posts are starting to worry me

I don't know if it's a language thing or what

But "accidentally" having sex? I can't even guess what that would mean

And the car salesman metaphor is a bit "I mean hey, I would never wear a short dress and then..."

 

Accidentally, as in you made the decision to do it but were a dumb ass drunk and weren't thinking clearly. That's how I define "accidentally having sex" as a drunk person.

And no, it isn't the same as "don't wear a short dress". Her decision to get drunk without a DD, then get stuck with a group of men, one of whom seemingly had a thing for her and she knew it. Ends up in the same room as him.

Is there ever a point where person should think "maybe this isn't the best idea?". Well that's what i'm getting at here, because it didn't happen. And it didn't happen because too much booze predictably turns people into temporary fools.

who needs facts and confirmation when the guy looks as plenty 'rapey' as literally the frontman from SWANS.

Dude, you're scaring me with this "her decision to get drunk without a DD, then get stuck with a group of men, one of whom had a thing for her and she knew it" Shit.

All of that is completely irrelevant.

The only thing that's relevant is whether, in the actual moment, she consents or not.

Your post is bordering on rape apology: It sounds like you're trying to mitigate any consent issues with her (perhaps poor) decisions leading up to it.

he basically admits that he put his penis inside her while she was passed out and later changed his mind, which makes him guilty of rape no matter how he decides to word it.

  On 2/27/2016 at 5:15 AM, kinski said:

he basically admits that he put his penis inside her while she was passed out and later changed his mind, which makes him guilty of rape no matter how he decides to word it.

  Quote

 

 

Larkin Grimm and I headed towards a consensual romantic moment that fortunately was not consummated

He admits it was consensual. She doesn't I guess.

And Limpy no i'm not a rape apologist. This just hardly sounds like rape to me and there's so much odd crap going on with this lady that all makes her can't walk drunk story hard to digest.

Here's another quote:

  Quote

 

LG: Totally magical and wonderful. I love that guy. We parted ways for good reasons but it was an experience that changed my life for the better. Mr. Gira is a very inspiring man. He is also a truly good, kindhearted person. Not everybody realizes that about him because his music is so intense. I think I could work in the studio with that guy forever and be happy. But our lives outside the studio really clash.

his explanation sounds like a really eloquent version of 'she was leading me on bro!'

  On 2/27/2016 at 5:21 AM, kinski said:

his explanation sounds like a really eloquent version of 'she was leading me on bro!'

Which certainly happens, sometimes.. And once again we can't reach any actual conclusion,

  On 2/27/2016 at 5:22 AM, maitake said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 5:21 AM, kinski said:

his explanation sounds like a really eloquent version of 'she was leading me on bro!'

 

Which certainly happens, sometimes.. And once again we can't reach any actual conclusion,

 

leading on sure happens, but sex without consent is still rape.

Well that definition in my mind would make a LOT of men rapists. Men who have sex with drunk girls in general. Personally I don't think people ever give true, proper consent when more than a little drunk. Can a brain make any rational decision at all in that state?

I guess yeah, i'll agree that under that broad definition of rape, Michael Gira is in fact a rapist.

if you fuck someone who's too drunk to make a decision you are kinda taking advante of the situation and well kinda raping someone. especially if you fuck someone's passed out body.

Well okay then girls often rape drunk guys too. Happens all the time at my local 3 campuses.

never said it was male-exclusive

Well it seems we've met the same page. There's indeed a lot of raping going around.

The ego that kept Swans going for 30 years is the same ego that can't imagine a woman happy without his cock