Swans' Michael Gira accused of rape by singer Larkin Grimm

I was kind of hoping it'd be a clearcut yes or no. now it's turned into this grey area where it'll have to be picked apart to determine whether it was consensual, drunk/semi-consensual or flat-out rape. and right now there still aren't enough facts to be able to say. what a mess. I've stopped following the posts and comments on facebook, too many idiots on both sides.

Anyone notice this Facebook post by Larkin Grimm posted just yesterday? https://www.facebook.com/larkin.grimm.1/posts/1283943221623036?pnref=story

  Quote

 

Please share this with anyone who has experienced harassment in the music world. I experienced a traumatic incidence of sexual harassment in my band Heroes are Gang Leaders on February 6th and 7th. The band leader, Thomas Sayers Ellis, threatened to hurt me further if I called him out publicly, so I have spent the last few weeks thinking it over, looking at my options. Many cases like this have been shared on Facebook and twitter lately. I do not believe in Facebook witch hunts or mob justice, and that is why I decided to take this issue to a government agency that is supposed to protect women from sexual harassment and assault in the workplace. It turns out musicians cannot file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission because we are freelancers. Maybe this is why rape, assault, and sexual harassment are so common in the music world. The representative of the EEOC, who I spoke to at length, said, "It's true. This is an unfair situation for musicians and other freelancers. You are being left out in the cold as far as justice is concerned. I urge you to get a group together, contact your congressman, your senator, and see if there is anything you can do to help us protect women like yourself." Twitter justice is not justice, y'all. I saw this man, whose sexual advances I had been calmly brushing off for months, abuse his girlfriend in front of 12 band members at Rutgers University in Newark on the night of february 6th. I went to speak to him afterwards wondering if he had gone insane. This was a man I loved and admired. The next day, I was publicly humiliated in front of our audience at The Firehouse in Brooklyn on February 7th right before the show, verbally abused and threatened, and kicked out of a band that I loved. Both these events had many, many witnesses. What I would often say to Thomas and to Devin Waldman, my ex who was also in the band and contributed to a hostile work environment, was, "Please, please just let me do my job. Stop hitting on me and let me do my job. I am good at this job."

I must add that retaliation was threatened if I shared this story, so if you read any crazy things about me understand that this is an attempt to undermine my credibility as a victim. Under U.S. law I would be protected from retaliation under EEOC rules if I were considered an employee of Thomas Sayers Ellis or Fast-Speaking Music, but because of the way this field works, I have no protection against this. Nobody is perfect and please remember your personal experience with me and my work before believing any harmful nonsense or judging my character.

Yeah, that's the post that led in to her accusing Gira...

Idk, Gira claims whatever happened between them was consensual... There's also things about Larkin's story and claims, when put in context along with previous statements she's made (i.e the "1 in 5" thing) just make her story seem unreliable. I still stand by my previous statement that to come out about all this just now and the manner in which she has done so seems to have kind of a slightly exaggerated/fabricated opportunistic ring to it.

We'll see how this all plays out I guess.

Innocent until proven guilty

And consensual-at-the-time drunk sex is not rape even if it's politically incorrect to say that nowadays

I don't really care either way, if she was serious about the accusation she'd tell it to police not her Facebook followers. I'm skeptical and everyone should be, because yeah: he should be assumed innocent until proven guilty.

One time I got drunk by myself and woke up wearing two pairs of pants. Earlier that evening, I was listening to The Seer...

  On 2/27/2016 at 12:30 PM, Candiru said:

One time I got drunk by myself and woke up wearing two pairs of pants. Earlier that evening, I was listening to The Seer...

You should make a Facebook post about this to raise awareness

MGF,

Go spend 5 minutes on R/TumblrInAction

Look at what's happening on campuses

This isn't some fringe of the fringe

https://archive.is/jV3gs

It's getting old that people on the left defend everything that happens on the left...really fucking old

hey my left is just as good as my right

/not surprised mgf is on tumblr

Also ;-p @ eugy .. who's long been a rape of Palestine apologist.

/next levels the thread, hah, I'm outta hiar.

Universities and colleges in the US haven't 'been that way forever dude'. There has been a massive anti intellectual lurch to the safe space, which unlike left or right, stands for nothing and is both a safety blankee and a bully pulpit for the vapid angst of the youth of today. The next generation will tear that all down though so I haven't given up hope. Also, that I'm not surprised line about you being on tumblr was all in good fun, I don't do snark, if I'm gonna attack it's usually more frightening. Heh. Clearly though tumblr is the home for a lot of these Neo puritanical freaks, more so than anywhere on the web. So whilst there's nice art blogs and music blogs, there's this general stain across vast swathes of that place that gets my distain at the distaste that it engenders. /lol, genders

I don't think Limpy is being paranoid at all, and if you live in the states maybe you would see it first hand on our campuses. It's without a doubt a growing problem. The fringe nutters are drawing huge crowds of people to rally.

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, LimpyLoo said:

MGF,

Go spend 5 minutes on R/TumblrInAction

Look at what's happening on campuses

This isn't some fringe of the fringe

 

https://archive.is/jV3gs

 

 

It's getting old that people on the left defend everything that happens on the left...really fucking old

what's the actual problem with that article?

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:16 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, LimpyLoo said:

MGF,

Go spend 5 minutes on R/TumblrInAction

Look at what's happening on campuses

This isn't some fringe of the fringe

 

https://archive.is/jV3gs

 

 

It's getting old that people on the left defend everything that happens on the left...really fucking old

what's the actual problem with that article?

 

Probably one of the first sentences...

"Here’s the thing: it is possible to consent to having some experience and then, sometime in the future, not consent to having had that experience."

By the way I just decided that I was raped by the only girl who I ever slept with. She never told me she had a husband and if i'd known, I would have never fucked her.

Eugene, are you really asking what is wrong with withdrawing consent after the fact?

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:37 PM, maitake said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:16 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, LimpyLoo said:

MGF,

Go spend 5 minutes on R/TumblrInAction

Look at what's happening on campuses

This isn't some fringe of the fringe

 

https://archive.is/jV3gs

 

 

It's getting old that people on the left defend everything that happens on the left...really fucking old

what's the actual problem with that article?

 

Probably one of the first sentences...

 

"Here’s the thing: it is possible to consent to having some experience and then, sometime in the future, not consent to having had that experience."

 

By the way I just decided that I was raped by the only girl who I ever slept with. She never told me she had a husband and if i'd known, I would have never fucked her.

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:54 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Eugene, are you really asking what is wrong with withdrawing consent after the fact?

but the article doesn't deal with the legal banalities that the mra/tumblrinaction/you are so concerned with.

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:37 PM, maitake said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:16 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, LimpyLoo said:

MGF,

Go spend 5 minutes on R/TumblrInAction

Look at what's happening on campuses

This isn't some fringe of the fringehttps://archive.is/jV3gs

It's getting old that people on the left defend everything that happens on the left...really fucking old

 

what's the actual problem with that article?

Probably one of the first sentences...

 

"Here’s the thing: it is possible to consent to having some experience and then, sometime in the future, not consent to having had that experience."By the way I just decided that I was raped by the only girl who I ever slept with. She never told me she had a husband and if i'd known, I would have never fucked her.

Omg, I hope you're ok, all my best in this time of need. Etc

What a creep that woman was, she needs to go down

Anyone who disagrees with this is a rape apologist and should check their privilege and mentioning the law is is obfuscating an obvious wrong and victim blaming.

/I was thinking it would be intresting if a few men went mercenary and pushed cases like this, against women that aren't particularly pleasant, don't want to hurt anyone nice now do we. Their experience would be instructive and provide valuable data. Can pay for their obviously going to be, destroyed lives with patreon accounts.

Yeah you know what delet. It made me feel fucking digusting yeah. I unknowingly cuckolded a guy who as far as I can tell is a outstanding person who regularly saves people's lives as a member of both local fire and emergency departments.

That article states this as part of it's Consent-as-Permission model:

New Information – When new information about others or personal realizations about oneself surface that change one’s perception of something that happened to them.

Oh well.. It's been several years now. I don't know if I was raped or not. I don't even want to think about it that way.. I assumed she was as confused as I was then, but looking back on it I just don't know. Sexless marriage makes people insane sometimes I guess. For a while I was convinced he might come kill me because before she ran off and I never heard from her again he went apeshit after finding her conversations with me.

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:57 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:54 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Eugene, are you really asking what is wrong with withdrawing consent after the fact?

but the article doesn't deal with the legal banalities that the mra/tumblrinaction/you are so concerned with.

Yup, me and the MRA

You know me and my MRA propaganda

Gots to get my RedPill on

You know how I do

Those 'legal banalities' are not so banal

(Banal sex)

And imagine getting called a rapist because someone retroactively decided that, while they consented at the time, they no longer want to have consented

In a world where getting called a 'rapist' will destroy your life, it is indeed important to understand an accuser's definition of 'rape'...IF that definition entails consensual sex, then yes that's a fucking issue Eugene

i don't see how any of that has anything to do with the article.

HE DIDN"T DO NUFFIN' HE'S JUST A LITTLE BOY!

But anyway, back to M Gira

I always wondered about his...y'know...mind

My friend's a huge Swans fan so I've heard a lot of stuff

Like the early spoken word stuff (*nervously tugs on collar in a comical fashion*)

I don't know much about M Gira (besides him being the cowboy behind the dumpster in Mulholland Drive)

But yeah I always wondered about him...dunno

  On 2/27/2016 at 5:54 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:57 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 2/27/2016 at 4:54 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Eugene, are you really asking what is wrong with withdrawing consent after the fact?

but the article doesn't deal with the legal banalities that the mra/tumblrinaction/you are so concerned with.

Yup, me and the MRA

You know me and my MRA propaganda

Gots to get my RedPill on

You know how I do

 

Those 'legal banalities' are not so banal

(Banal sex)

And imagine getting called a rapist because someone retroactively decided that, while they consented at the time, they no longer want to have consented

In a world where getting called a 'rapist' will destroy your life, it is indeed important to understand an accuser's definition of 'rape'...IF that definition entails consensual sex, then yes that's a fucking issue Eugene

 

Dude shut the hell up, MRA has nothing to do with fucking misogynist redpill.

And you hold lots of MRA stances (as in reasonable ones which eschew political correctness in favor of actual correctness) from what I've seen in this thread which is a nice change, you just don't like the label because you have a false preconception of what MRA is.

Yes, a world where consent can be retroactively withdrawn would be a disgusting one. And it is the world we live in. And this is a serious MRA issue.

this thread needs some music to cheer up

lol