EU

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

 

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

people who reply to Jev are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:28 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

 

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

 

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

 

Alco does not say "we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:28 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

 

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

 

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

 

 

Alco does not say "we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done.

 

what in the hell does this mean?

hell

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:46 AM, pyramidpanes said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:28 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

 

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

 

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

 

 

Alco does not say "we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done.

 

what in the hell does this mean?

 

hell

 

Should I explain something?

EDIT:

Yeah, it definitely means "hell". That is correct.

Where's limpy?

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:47 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:46 AM, pyramidpanes said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:28 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

 

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

 

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

 

 

Alco does not say "we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done.

 

what in the hell does this mean?

 

hell

 

 

Should I explain something?

 

EDIT:

 

Yeah, it definitely means "hell". That is correct.

 

explain blah blah bullshit

"we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done. bullshit shit what crap i'm i writing?

how many useless words you thought that was well written with?

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:32 AM, phling said:

people who reply to Jev are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.

But yeah Jev you're grossly overgeneralizing people. And your point is wrong, insultingly wrong. People who don't try to persecute others unfairly are not the cause of genocide.

Oh shit I did it again, I replied to him. More genocide coming everyone SORRY 4 THE GENOCIDE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GzUh4PJVx8

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:28 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:25 AM, Alcofribas said:

gosh, yet another piece of evidence supporting the irrefutable and deep insight that islam is the mother load of bad ideas.

It is actually you and the opposite extreme of the debate that will be responsible for riots, pogroms, civil wars, and genocides in this conflict. Because of your unrealistic, naive expectations of people around you.

 

lol so people saying we should take a pause before we get out the pitchforks are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.? fuckinglol

Alco does not say "we should take a pause". His camp allows the problem to grow even bigger than it currently is. People like Alco marginalize the issue and ridicule the opposing arguments which in turn upsets and radicalises more people in the middle feeling ignored and hopeless and making people on the extreme sides to become even more extreme. The both extremes (the naive one and the truly racist and bigot one) are responsible for the conflict worsening. Both camps are emotional and irrational. Sad thing is that the naive camp has often more potential to behave intelligently and yet they react in a truly irrational, uneducated way even though they could use their potential to truly help to solve the problem. But they are unable to overcome their emotions and ideals (irony is that religious fanatics have similar problems). So yes, both camps then can shake their hands when all is done.

Not at all trying to corner/focus on Alco as I consider him a mate, but superbly well said re: the general mindset.

Christians are pretty good at terrorism as well, just saying.

Just look at this shit https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

last post

  On 7/19/2016 at 4:22 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:32 AM, phling said:

people who reply to Jev are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.

That is correct, actually. My fault guys, sorry. :(

 

But yeah Jev you're grossly overgeneralizing people. And your point is wrong, insultingly wrong. People who don't try to persecute others unfairly are not the cause of genocide.

 

Oh shit I did it again, I replied to him. More genocide coming everyone SORRY 4 THE GENOCIDE

 

Care to explain which people I am overgeneralising? And which point is insultingly wrong? I am not sure we understand each other (I am aware of my limited English skills so I am prepared to clear up anything).

  On 7/19/2016 at 4:22 AM, auxien said:

 

People who don't try to persecute others unfairly are not the cause of genocide.

When you put it like this, I definitely agree. But it is a generalisation. It is much more nuanced in the reality. In this issue I see basically three camps:

• a bigotry camp (extreme end)
• a balanced/sober/rational/undecided/careless camp (middle)
• an extreme naivety camp (extreme end)

I believe both extreme camps are bad and making the issue worse - both in their own way. One is spreading hatred and violence, the other is ignoring the problems with their pink glasses on having unrealistic expectations from people. Both extreme camps are uneducated/lacking experience in their own way. Both extreme camps are not prepared to do compromises between the "good" and "evil" and they are overly emotional which never helps. Both extreme camps are preventing reasonable solutions from happening. Both extreme camps seem to want all or nothing and that is not the way I am afraid. There has to be a reasonable compromise otherwise people are going to suffer terribly.

I believe Alco and alike tend to be somewhere around the naivety camp and he is therefore responsible for worsening the issue because he adds more fuel into the fire so to speak.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  On 7/19/2016 at 9:13 AM, Gocab said:

Christians are pretty good at terrorism as well, just saying.

 

Just look at this shit https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

 

last post

Is this religious agenda in your eyes? How many of the drone operators released a Christian statement after the attacks? Or did the army released such statement?

The collateral damage is terrible, no doubt. But you are missing the point.

EDIT: To be clear, I have big legality/morality problems with drone strikes.

a mother and her three daughters stabbed in france :

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/hautes-alpes-une-mere-et-ses-trois-filles-attaquees-au-couteau-dans-un-centre-de-vacances-19-07-2016-5979377.php

  On 7/19/2016 at 2:16 PM, D4M0 said:

a mother and her three daughters stabbed in france :

 

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/hautes-alpes-une-mere-et-ses-trois-filles-attaquees-au-couteau-dans-un-centre-de-vacances-19-07-2016-5979377.php

Here in English language: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-fighting-life-after-mum-8448196

  Quote

 

Police say the motive for the attack remains 'vague' but local media reports state the attacker had made references to the females being 'too lightly dressed'.

Some of these white boys are going to snap sooner or later.

edit - Jumping to conclusions, obviously.

my parody post is making fun of sam harris specifically who i think generally embodies the kind of rhetoric on this issue here on teh 'tmm. caze and limpy for example explicitly consider his analyses to be correct. for some of the specific language i was mocking:

http://bennorton.com/sam-harris-and-fascism/

it's amusing to me that sam harris fans consistently make no effort to grapple with these kinds of statements and not only overlook them but will deliberately deny that they express what he really means. caze & limpy have already resorted to the "he didn't say that/ you don't understand what he means" line earlier itt and now caze has called my parody of his actual language "strawmen."

it is a shame that popular culture has a such a poverty of real minds out there sharing compelling and rich insights but what can you expect really?

Jev: please consult with Herr Jan before any further posts.

lane: no need to shy away from expressing any critical words about my ideas. we def are watmm mates, i don't take it personally but thank you for being clear about that.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 PM, Alcofribas said:

my parody post is making fun of sam harris specifically who i think generally embodies the kind of rhetoric on this issue here on teh 'tmm. caze and limpy for example explicitly consider his analyses to be correct. for some of the specific language i was mocking:

 

http://bennorton.com/sam-harris-and-fascism/

 

it's amusing to me that sam harris fans consistently make no effort to grapple with these kinds of statements and not only overlook them but will deliberately deny that they express what he really means. caze & limpy have already resorted to the "he didn't say that/ you don't understand what he means" line earlier itt and now caze has called my parody of his actual language "strawmen."

 

it is a shame that popular culture has a such a poverty of real minds out there sharing compelling and rich insights but what can you expect really?

it's not amusing that despite repeatedly being shown that your views on Harris are complete nonsense based on farcical distortions of what he has said, you seem completely incapable of learning the truth. it's not amusing, it's sad. poor alco. it's a shame that popular leftist culture is so morally bankrupt and dishonest that this is the best we can expect from otherwise intelligent and liberal people.

  On 7/19/2016 at 1:17 PM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 4:22 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:32 AM, phling said:

people who reply to Jev are to blame for genocide, war, riots, etc.

That is correct, actually. My fault guys, sorry. :(

 

But yeah Jev you're grossly overgeneralizing people. And your point is wrong, insultingly wrong. People who don't try to persecute others unfairly are not the cause of genocide.

 

Oh shit I did it again, I replied to him. More genocide coming everyone SORRY 4 THE GENOCIDE

Care to explain which people I am overgeneralising? And which point is insultingly wrong? I am not sure we understand each other (I am aware of my limited English skills so I am prepared to clear up anything).

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 4:22 AM, auxien said:

People who don't try to persecute others unfairly are not the cause of genocide.

When you put it like this, I definitely agree. But it is a generalisation. It is much more nuanced in the reality. In this issue I see basically three camps:

• a bigotry camp (extreme end)
• a balanced/sober/rational/undecided/careless camp (middle)
• an extreme naivety camp (extreme end)

I believe both extreme camps are bad and making the issue worse - both in their own way. One is spreading hatred and violence, the other is ignoring the problems with their pink glasses on having unrealistic expectations from people. Both extreme camps are uneducated/lacking experience in their own way. Both extreme camps are not prepared to do compromises between the "good" and "evil" and they are overly emotional which never helps. Both extreme camps are preventing reasonable solutions from happening. Both extreme camps seem to want all or nothing and that is not the way I am afraid. There has to be a reasonable compromise otherwise people are going to suffer terribly.

 

I believe Alco and alike tend to be somewhere around the naivety camp and he is therefore responsible for worsening the issue because he adds more fuel into the fire so to speak.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

You are overgeneralizing Alco and since I agree with him on this point, me, and many, many others. You have us classified in these camps (this is a REALLY bad word choice coming from you ma'am) that are by definition generalized, and I would say overly so. People do not easily fit into three placements, it's just not reality miss Jev.

As to the rest of your post, I believe that you are wrong. To equate anyone other than murderers with murderers is insulting. If you don't understand why, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it so don't even ask.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 PM, Alcofribas said:

Jev: please consult with Herr Jan before any further posts.

lol, that's a shame. I was expecting some arguments. Nevermind.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 PM, Alcofribas said:

http://bennorton.com/sam-harris-and-fascism/

What a bullshit, emotional article. Is that what you read and respect? That idiot doesn't even know the difference between ethnicity and race.

And that "free will" argument...

And his "proof" of Harris being a fascist just because he said that for once he is basically forced to agree with their opinions in Europe? I think more than anything Harris pointed out how terribly sad and hopeless this all is that he has to give props to fascists in this issue. Here it is in a more proper context than in the article you have posted:

  Quote

 

While liberals should be the ones pointing the way beyond this Iron Age madness, they are rendering themselves increasingly irrelevant. Being generally reasonable and tolerant of diversity, liberals should be especially sensitive to the dangers of religious literalism. But they aren't.

 

The same failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants. The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists.

Even though the "fascist" label Harris mentioned is an overstatement IMO, I get his point and intentions.

Norton seems as another naive academically masturbating idiot completely missing the point and he is going to regret his position when the shit hits the fan. Surreal.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:52 PM, caze said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 PM, Alcofribas said:

my parody post is making fun of sam harris specifically who i think generally embodies the kind of rhetoric on this issue here on teh 'tmm. caze and limpy for example explicitly consider his analyses to be correct. for some of the specific language i was mocking:

 

http://bennorton.com/sam-harris-and-fascism/

 

it's amusing to me that sam harris fans consistently make no effort to grapple with these kinds of statements and not only overlook them but will deliberately deny that they express what he really means. caze & limpy have already resorted to the "he didn't say that/ you don't understand what he means" line earlier itt and now caze has called my parody of his actual language "strawmen."

 

it is a shame that popular culture has a such a poverty of real minds out there sharing compelling and rich insights but what can you expect really?

 

it's not amusing that despite repeatedly being shown that your views on Harris are complete nonsense based on farcical distortions of what he has said, you seem completely incapable of learning the truth. it's not amusing, it's sad. poor alco. it's a shame that popular leftist culture is so morally bankrupt and dishonest that this is the best we can expect from otherwise intelligent and liberal people.

 

Well said.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, auxien said:

 

To equate anyone other than murderers with murderers is insulting. If you don't understand why, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it so don't even ask.

This is incorrect, obviously any murder deserves the brunt of the responsibility for any act, but what about those that facilitated the act? From the bomb maker that designs the suicide vest to the ignorant and hateful preacher that calls for death to apostates, infidels, blasphemers, etc. The only question is where you draw the line, to what degree do you apportion the blame in each instance. There is nothing insulting to anyone who is not part of the problem in criticising those who are.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, auxien said:

You are overgeneralizing Alco and since I agree with him on this point, me, and many, many others.

Are you now seriously using quantity as an argument? But yeah, unfortunately, your camp has quite an influence in the world today if that is what you tried to point out. That is true.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, auxien said:

 

...these camps (this is a REALLY bad word choice coming from you ma'am)

In my language "camp" is a word with many meanings. One of them is defining a group of people sharing the same opinions and interests usually in the context of comparing them to another "camp" (in political debates etc.) I don't know what other word I should use in English. Maybe "a group" would be more fitting? Feel free to correct me. As I said numerous times before, I am not native and my English is basic. But I think you get the idea. No need to be triggered.

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, auxien said:

 

People do not easily fit into three placements, it's just not reality miss Jev.

The camps (groups) are quite wide - mainly the middle one consisting of many different attitudes. Read it again. Of course there is a gradual transition between them all (thus "somewhere around the naivety camp"). I will make sure I have a fancy graph next time...

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, auxien said:

 

As to the rest of your post, I believe that you are wrong. To equate anyone other than murderers with murderers is insulting.

So if a government decides to create a policy that will unintentionally and indirectly cause millions of deaths they will not be responsible for it even in the slightest? Even if they were warned about it beforehand?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/armed-man-holed-up-in-hotel-in-southern-france-police/article30976460/

yeah france is pretty safe those days

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:52 PM, caze said:

 

  On 7/19/2016 at 3:18 PM, Alcofribas said:

my parody post is making fun of sam harris specifically who i think generally embodies the kind of rhetoric on this issue here on teh 'tmm. caze and limpy for example explicitly consider his analyses to be correct. for some of the specific language i was mocking:

 

http://bennorton.com/sam-harris-and-fascism/

 

it's amusing to me that sam harris fans consistently make no effort to grapple with these kinds of statements and not only overlook them but will deliberately deny that they express what he really means. caze & limpy have already resorted to the "he didn't say that/ you don't understand what he means" line earlier itt and now caze has called my parody of his actual language "strawmen."

 

it is a shame that popular culture has a such a poverty of real minds out there sharing compelling and rich insights but what can you expect really?

it's not amusing that despite repeatedly being shown that your views on Harris are complete nonsense based on farcical distortions of what he has said, you seem completely incapable of learning the truth. it's not amusing, it's sad. poor alco. it's a shame that popular leftist culture is so morally bankrupt and dishonest that this is the best we can expect from otherwise intelligent and liberal people.

yes of course, "farcical distortions," and not, say, his actual words.