Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

  On 9/11/2019 at 10:37 PM, Nebraska said:

are we even throwing shit at the wall? the dems can't seem to make up their mind whether they should even begin impeachment proceedings and as for the republican doing anything? can they do anything? trump has already proved he will fire and replace anyone that's not on board with what he wants and everyone seems to back him on this (so much so in fact that even everyday citizens against it are somehow seen as traitors)

trump has kind of terraformed the society so that certain behavior is acceptable to the point where the president trolling is something that should just be accepted and tolerated

what's going on with impeachment is the administration's stonewalling of subpoenas left congress with the need to enforce them through the courts. basically pelosi and nadler are anticipating that the federal courts and appeals courts will find that, of course, the executive branch should not be free from oversight, and therefor congress should be able to conduct investigations, so the subpoenas should be enforced. once the courts establish this for one case (mcgahn), the precedent will be applied to the others and then the democrats will be able to do the public hearings that will provide the most clear justification for impeachment to the public. 

the reason they are waiting to declare official impeachment poceedings is because a significant number of house dems live in trump districts and are reluctant to put themselves on record as being for impeachment, without having the backup of having the case laid out before the american people and the momentum being in motion. pelosi is, of course, cognizant of the fact that they could lose dozens of house seats if they play this wrong. if they go into full impeachment mode too early, what that does is it invites the propaganda machines to lambast the libs with endless lies and partisan rhetoric, all while they wait for weeks and months to be able to lay out the maximum evidence possible for the public, to give all house dems as much cover as possible. it is entirely consistent with good strategy for pelosi to do this. they would be opening themselves up for attack while they are forced to wait, otherwise.

nadler said the mcgahn case could be through appeals in october. 

this is nadler's baby. he took the job of having the responsibility to take down an unfit president, and he will do what he's supposed to. pelosi indicated in her remarks after the mueller hearing that she intends to allow a floor vote on impeachment, but they are waiting until their hand is strongest, and she specically said they will not wait forever. nadler said, if the mcgahn case is out of appeals in october, then proceedings could play out through november and articles of impeachment could be ready for a vote as early as december, but he also suggested that it could spill into next year. i anticipate house floor votes for impeachment proceedings and for articles of impeachment to both pass.

they are even getting new articles to add, all the time. trump dangling pardons while directing crimes is classic impeachable offense. so is the personal enrichment that the judiciary committee is currently investigating. 

the judiciary committee came back from summer break weeks early. they are not idling. and they are trying to do this right. i hope.

republicans in congress could certainly do something but they're all afraid of not being re-elected. they have no principles and are just playing the us vs them game. 

  On 9/11/2019 at 11:18 PM, very honest said:

 

what's going on with impeachment is the administration's stonewalling of subpoenas left congress with the need to enforce them through the courts. basically pelosi and nadler are anticipating that the federal courts and appeals courts will find that, of course, the executive branch should not be free from oversight, and therefor congress should be able to conduct investigations, so the subpoenas should be enforced. once the courts establish this for one case (mcgahn), the precedent will be applied to the others and then the democrats will be able to do the public hearings that will provide the most clear justification for impeachment to the public. 

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that sounds ummm... not sure. i mean, at one point i remember hearing pelosi didn't want to impeach trump because she wanted him in prison (nadler wanted impeachment proceedings to begin)

also, you said pelosi is waiting for when their hand is strongest. i remember her saying something that echoed as much but i'm curious- exactly what would she consider to enough to give her a strong hand. because part of the constant flood of posts pointing out just what crazy thing trump has done or said is (in some way) disbelief that he's still president despite that. 

it also makes for a very divided climate: on one hand you have those that see that their candidate is teflon and cannot be touched. and on the other, you have the frustrated that cannot understand why their leader is being allowed to get away with it and no guarantee that he will answer to anything

  On 9/12/2019 at 12:03 AM, Nebraska said:

that sounds ummm... not sure. i mean, at one point i remember hearing pelosi didn't want to impeach trump because she wanted him in prison (nadler wanted impeachment proceedings to begin)

also, you said pelosi is waiting for when their hand is strongest. i remember her saying something that echoed as much but i'm curious- exactly what would she consider to enough to give her a strong hand. because part of the constant flood of posts pointing out just what crazy thing trump has done or said is (in some way) disbelief that he's still president despite that. 

it also makes for a very divided climate: on one hand you have those that see that their candidate is teflon and cannot be touched. and on the other, you have the frustrated that cannot understand why their leader is being allowed to get away with it and no guarantee that he will answer to anything

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when pelosi said she doesn't want trump impeached, she wants him in prison, i think she meant that she is trying to do this right, and she didn't want to let people get away with things by rushing into impeachment proceedings just because that's the idea in everyone's minds because they're remembering stuff about nixon. house dems seem to be doing things when they need to, and the strategic time for the floor impeachment proceedings vote is not yet.

the hand will be the strongest when they have evidence that is being withheld and they can get people to testify about trump's obstruction of justice. i'm sure they wouldn't mind having the tax returns and other financial history, too.

the climate is very divided. the information environment is a big part of that. during nixon, americans got their news from 5 news channels and 5 newspapers. now there are thousands (or millions) of information channels, and bad actors are taking advantage of their access to them. we are learning how bad public confusion can be, and how much of a problem it can be, as we are new to the internet era.

^^^ okay, then i'm hoping this is the moment of truth

  On 9/12/2019 at 6:05 AM, ignatius said:

 

 

 

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around the same time:

At this point, impeachment would be a mostly symbolic gesture, it would drag on past the election.  I say just wait, and let SDNY have the whole Drumpf family in their cross hairs.

  On 9/13/2019 at 12:06 AM, Rubin Farr said:

At this point, impeachment would be a mostly symbolic gesture, it would drag on past the election.  I say just wait, and let SDNY have the whole Drumpf family in their cross hairs.

let's do both.  it's not gonna make a difference to his base.. they'll vote for him no matter what. 

  On 9/13/2019 at 1:42 AM, ignatius said:

let's do both.  it's not gonna make a difference to his base.. they'll vote for him no matter what. 

I'm worried any public humiliation he suffers while in office, and possibly losing the election might trigger another white male shooter to go apeshit on innocents.  Of course we'll have to listen to him claim everything was "rigged" for the rest of his life.  Which hopefully won't be very long.

  On 9/13/2019 at 1:42 AM, ignatius said:

let's do both.  it's not gonna make a difference to his base.. they'll vote for him no matter what. 

I'd say: do the investigations (regardless of calling it an impeachment procedure, unless there's a legal reason to do call it that) in order to do fact-finding and define/set norms for future presidents/administrations. in this sense there's an obligation. but the thing though, impeachment in itself is not the goal as far as i'm concerned. he should be voted out of the white house.

  On 9/14/2019 at 7:24 PM, goDel said:

I'd say: do the investigations (regardless of calling it an impeachment procedure, unless there's a legal reason to do call it that) in order to do fact-finding and define/set norms for future presidents/administrations. in this sense there's an obligation. but the thing though, impeachment in itself is not the goal as far as i'm concerned. he should be voted out of the white house.

yeah i agree.. he should be voted out and investigations should continue and result of those investigations should be followed through.. i think this slow pace is deliberate and probably unavoidable.  building up the pressure and proceeding w/the investigations until they kick over all the stones. keping the word "impeachment" floating around in the news and making that racist cheeto squirm. 

good lawfare podcast episode on the minutiae of these impeachment things. https://www.lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-congress-congress-and-more-congress

Saudi Oil Attack Photos Implicate Iran, U.S. Says; Trump Hints at Military Action

excerpt:

  Quote

The Trump administration intensified its focus on Iran Sunday as the likely culprit behind attacks on important Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, with officials citing intelligence assessments to support the accusation and President Trump saying he was prepared to take military action.

The government released satellite photographs showing what officials said were at least 17 points of impact at several Saudi energy facilities from strikes they said came from the north or northwest. That would be consistent with an attack coming from the direction of Iran or Iraq rather than from Yemen, where the Iranian-backed Houthi faction claimed responsibility.

Administration officials, in a background briefing for reporters as well as in separate interviews on Sunday, also indicated that the strikes may have come from a combination of drone and cruise missile strikes — “both and a lot of them,” as one senior United States official put it — which would indicate a degree of scope, precision and sophistication beyond the ability of the Houthi rebels alone.

Mr. Trump, however, did not name Iran, saying he needed to consult with Saudi Arabia first.

“Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked,” he said in a tweet on Sunday evening. “There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”

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yeah.. our 'buddies', house of saud, i'm sure this will all go well. fucking hell. 

Nothing like tweeting out your foreign policy and showing that you’re willing to bend the knee to the saudis. 

  On 9/16/2019 at 3:14 AM, very honest said:

“Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked,” he said in a tweet on Sunday evening. “There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”

He should have just said "hey super rich Saudi Arabian dudes! I really have no clue what I'm supposed to do in this situation, so whatever you need me to do just tell me, ok? unless of course Vlad tells me not to, in which case I'll just tweet out a confusing, contradictory statement blaming the dems and/or Obama for everything. MAGA!"

And you know there's a misguided, psychotic orange voice in his head going "c'mon donald, do it - use the nukes"

  On 9/16/2019 at 3:55 PM, zero said:

And you know there's a misguided, psychotic orange voice in his head going "c'mon donald, do it - use the nukes"

that's so disturbing

About time this old biatch got owned

^^ pretty sure that caller was Kenny Powers.  watching her face react to his call was great. she's awful. 

Good piece by Robert Reich:

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/15/donald-trump-nuts-impeachment-25th-amendment-2020-election

^ article is a good recap of everything we already know.

I agree that impeachment is a waste of time. The only way is to vote him out in 2020. Sadly, I can envision a scenario that this doesn't happen...

loses popular vote by 8 million but electoral college comes thru again

Double

you

teee

efffff

Nothing to see here...