jordan peterson

yeah, I saw that.. unbelivably shameful performance by dyson...
 

  On 5/20/2018 at 12:47 PM, azatoth said:

Dawkins, Harris and JBP are these guys that have established themselves in their own field and then think they are equally qualified to give lectures about things they have very little knowledge about. An unfortunate tendency among academics that get popular. Being an expert in one academic discipline does not transfer to other academic disciplines or doesn't make you an expert on everything else happening in society.
 
Of course, all these *beep-boop* "I am a highly rational human" nerds latch on to these because they are "science" men. White rich men telling that things were better before and all progress is bad because ~reasons~, quelle surprise.
Hats of to the Petersons of the world for seizing the opportunity to suck the teat of wingnut welfare, but they are not really helping. Just adding to the fart-sniffing of this whole alt-right echosystem.

look, I agree with your first statement... but if all you honestly hear from these people is "all progress is bad" then i dont know.. we hear different things i guess. 
 
I dont know about dawkings and harris but jbp is not endorsed by the alt-right, which seems to be implied in a couple of posts here.
 

  On 5/20/2018 at 1:24 PM, taphead said:

I'm skeptical of anyone selling self-help who has a patreon because if that model is viable then it doesn't seem like it would be the best help.  like how long does it take to not need any more?  also I read Shapiro's more generous interpretation of "socially-enforced monogamy" and I still don't get how that prevents things like the Toronto Incel attack.  anyone wanna explain that one?  I'd be curious to hear the most generous explanation that connects a to b there.

https://jordanbpeterson.com/uncategorized/on-the-new-york-times-and-enforced-monogamy/

jfc

  On 5/19/2018 at 9:33 PM, MIXL2 said:

id argue a few people here are stuck on a lame anti-JP activism loop, so..

 

I posted before, the single reason I still post on this topic is that I refuse to take on the narrative of "I disagree with some of what this person says, therefore they are a piece of shit and I disagree with all of what they say"

 

edit:

  Reveal hidden contents

it is, if course, also incredibly entretaining :)

 

I feel like you're pulling a JBP every time you post this. Vaguely inferencing something and then backing off. Poking a little in some direction and saying "come on just think about it" and smirking. It's an immature way of communicating. And JBP does this all the time. Did you read the 12-part camestros felapton analysis of 12 rules for life? The last page at least summarizes the thing. And I know you are asking "well what do you suggest as an alternative to JBP?" look in the comment section:

  Quote

 

 

MARCH 11, 2018 - 8:38 AM

 

I’ve enjoyed reading this series and have so much to think about. What I want to know, ultimately, is do you have anything to offer in exchange? There are no end of debunkers of this or that self-help series or the purveyors of magic-bullet fixes, and I appreciate the ripping back of the veil and the reminder that we should pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Not trying to be clever, but thousands of words have been written now by you about why we should disregard this work. And I agree with your assessment. But do you have an alternative for anyone looking for what some would call truth?

Could you expend, say, ten or twelve thousand words offering what you would consider good life practices that would help someone like me whose looking for solutions? I ask because I was about to read this book before finding your initial Reading Peterson part 1.

Again, I enjoyed reading this, but am left with a feeling of despair. Sincerely asked. I enjoy your site and posts very much.

  Quote

 

Seriously, I think that the fact that Peterson does, in the end, decide to pat the cat rather than humiliate it is a reason not to despair. People are basically nice and want to be nice, helping them be nice is a good idea – that’s all I’ve got. You might want to look into Positive Psychology as a field. It has a lot of parallels with ‘positive thinking’ but is better grounded in empirical studies and mainstream psychology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-being_contributing_factors

This goes back to what I was saying about how the advice in books like Peterson isn’t necessarily bad advice – just that it is simplistic, and treats self-change as easy or just a matter of will power. Rather like ‘what’s a good diet’ the answers are both obvious and complex and miracle diets should be treated with suspicion.

Also, one of the things that is causing this thread to be so incoherent is that it is nebulously engaging a multitude of concerns and conflating them with some grand scheme. I'm talking about "neo-marxism" and male dominance and suicide and feminism and free speech and all that. JBP is running around reinforcing people's confirmation biases by briefly touching on all of the above and then failing to cogently defend or explain his assertions. I suggest you plainly lay your opinions on the table and we can discuss them. Instead of saying "free speech is being attacked in Sweden" I'd suggest you posit a potential REASON that free speech is being attacked. Such as:

"I think free speech is being attacked in Sweden in Academics because of Sweden's group-minded and inoffensive culture (Jantelagen) and institutions are hyper-reacting to current identitarian trends by absurdly censoring anything potentially offensive."

There you go. Now come up with some actual arguments, son.

thank god i dont need to go trough it again :)
 

  On 3/29/2018 at 3:55 AM, MIXL2 said:

 

  On 3/29/2018 at 3:04 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 3/29/2018 at 2:38 AM, MIXL2 said:

 

  On 3/29/2018 at 2:21 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 3/29/2018 at 1:41 AM, MIXL2 said:

 

  On 3/29/2018 at 1:35 AM, Candiru said:

He’s protesting “cultural Marxism” which doesn’t exist. Shame on all those people protesting real issues, eh?

perhaps not where you live, and id argue that inequality in the sense that has been protested against peterson is the non existent issue.
i guess we disagree

 

can you elaborate on this for us please?

 

I don't really want to engage that conversation on this thread.. but I'll explain from my perspective living in Sweden what I mean
class differences is a real issue and complicated issue.. but I have lived most of my life in a 2nd world country (Colombia) and in comparison Sweden truly is paradise when it comes to this. And so, seeing people demanding equity, seeing "Gulag" written on the streets and antifa/marxists movements and protests is, to me, ridiculous...
furthermore the narrative of these movements has moved up onto companies, the universities and the govermnet leading to ridiculous policies for equity, immigration problems and a huge fear from the media to discuss these issues.. so that's how I see it
now back to petersson, alco mentioned before that he doesn't add anything of meaning to the debate but iunno man.. if anything he makes people aware of the issue

 

actually i think this is the best thread we have for discussing this type of thing. i can't think where else on watmm it would be appropriate.

don't you think it's a bit rich to immediately reach for the marxist / antifa characterisation when discussing these things? overwhelmingly the majority of people who have an interest in equity and rights are not in this camp. not many people on here would agree with extremist tactics either but this is not a reason to go down the cultural marxism rabbit hole.

and really, you think the media and people are afraid to speak up on this issue? that's interesting because i have seen plenty of news stories that deal with these topics... oh i'm assuming you mean the mainstream media...like fox and every bloody uk tabloid that runs daily articles on how the 'loony left' are infiltrating society with their wacky plans for world domination. and how new corp owns more than two thirds of every newspaper in australia. and how every second night on australian tv there will be a story about how immigrants and dole bludgers are ruining the country. yes, that media would be really scared to report on these things wouldn't they.

what specific examples do you have that proves that there is an active effort to indoctrinate people into marxism and leftism? what specific ideas are being pursued by companies, universities and government that you find reprehensible and why? i am not being a snarky dick in saying this, i genuinely want to chase this train of thought as i think it is relevant to the discussion.

 

ok, so part of the reason I didn't want to discuss it is because I simply don't know enough.. but this article I think summarizes the state of the universities here well:
http://quillette.com/2017/11/14/academic-freedom-threat-sweden/

I study engineering in Lund and the marxists stickers and "gulag" marks have slowly been growing in density in the city and campus... here there is no right wing mainstream media id say, so to see the other side of things we're forced to youtube etc (and the government want to call Google and Facebook into court for promoting hate speech! https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/ku-ordforanden-oppnar-for-att-kalla-google-till-forhor/) I agree that most people don't agree with the extreme left ideas of equality but the thing is i dont think people realise how far left things are going... I was taught in school about Nazi Germany but not a word about Maoist China or the Soviet Union (I mean not a word on how many people communism killed). I don't believe there is a conspiracy behind it.. I think it has more to do with that is more difficult to see what's wrong with ideas of equality being pushed too far (in comparison to far right ideas).

and yes, here you are afraid to speak about it.. we only have one big "right wing" party which wants to reduce immigration and they are labeled the nazis and racists by the media... when in truth they are barely centrists in their politics (and they where voted by 13% of the population!)

I'll need to do more research to tell you more details.. I mean is not like everything is on fire or anything but is not a good direction!

edit: @Salvatorin I try rlly hard to tell myself not to agree with everything but what can I say, I agree with most of it! I don't think the supa left thing applies to all of the west but certainly parts of it.. and there are much larger problems at hand than these equality games!

 

  On 5/20/2018 at 5:03 PM, Brian Dance said:

People need to appreciate what they have and if they're struggling to find a special someone maybe they should work on making themselves a more functional, attractive person instead of blaming everything outside them.

which is, as i see it, jbps' overarching message

  Quote

Mr. Peterson’s home is a carefully curated house of horror. He has filled it with a sprawl of art that covers the walls from floor to ceiling. Most of it is communist propaganda from the Soviet Union (execution scenes, soldiers looking noble) — a constant reminder, he says, of atrocities and oppression. He wants to feel their imprisonment, though he lives here on a quiet residential street in Toronto and is quite free.

 

this is very idm

the nyt profile was fun lol

Imagine still defending JBP. I think it has to do with you being 21, MIXL2. As you go through adulthood, people like Peterson will start to seem like pathetic parasites preying on your naiveté. Because they are! The idea of a self help guru father figure becomes more ridiculous when you realize that even people who appear successful are still fucked up, just better at hiding it.

But that NYT article came out so he’s no longer hiding it.

indeed, very easy to dismiss me as a child instead of arguing with the ideas themselves... is telling and similar to the debate being had in this vid: Jordan poses a very clear question, it goes unanswered and the opposition instead resort to ad hominem (starts properly around @40:11)

  On 5/20/2018 at 1:55 PM, psn said:

i don't think peterson did very well in that debate, but i'll agree that michael eric dyson sucks too. stephen fry came off as the most focused of any of them but i can't get over how much of a dork he is in general. i dunno, these kind of debates always suck.

mixl2 this is for you:

flol "small middle class" there is no bloody lower class/proletariat in sweden. if people here do not get ahead is their own bloody fault and i stand by that.

edit: I have seen real poverty and real suffering in colombia, indonesia and brazil (examples of countries where the overarching hierarchy is predicated on power and NOT on competence). is insulting to call a country that has come so far ahead to the point that someone who cleans toilets can buy a house (and live a middle class life by any international standards) unequal in opportunity. (note: this is referring to a first generation immigrant who does not speak the language) 

is that from mein kampf?

  On 5/20/2018 at 2:01 PM, MIXL2 said:

https://jordanbpeterson.com/uncategorized/on-the-new-york-times-and-enforced-monogamy/

How does this mean that the Toronto Incel attacker would have gotten laid and not murdered people?  What would the city of Toronto look like with socially enforced monogamy in place?  I can't think of any way to answer those questions without getting into some pretty disgusting ideas, but I am open to hearing your explanation or anyone else's.

  On 5/20/2018 at 8:55 PM, zaphod said:

is that from mein kampf?

yeah

  On 5/20/2018 at 9:05 PM, taphead said:

 

  On 5/20/2018 at 2:01 PM, MIXL2 said:

https://jordanbpeterson.com/uncategorized/on-the-new-york-times-and-enforced-monogamy/

 

How does this mean that the Toronto Incel attacker would have gotten laid and not murdered people?  What would the city of Toronto look like with socially enforced monogamy in place?  I can't think of any way to answer those questions without getting into some pretty disgusting ideas, but I am open to hearing your explanation or anyone else's.

 

it would look as it looks today i think (edit: perhaps with a harsher look on divorce than what is prevalent today).. it means marriage is a thing and polygamy is illegal (i dont know if it is but i guess so). There will always be insane people, but perhaps if they read/listened to jbp and fixed themselves instead of blaming the world this behavior would be reduced

Oh, so you're saying Peterson is an idiot then?  Because the NYT article says

  Quote

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy.

And if someone's proposal for a solution is something that is already in place, they would be a dumb person.  Is this what you are saying?  edit: oh you added more, so what sort of harsher look on divorce?  And how would that get Toronto Incel laid?

  On 5/20/2018 at 9:22 PM, taphead said:

Oh, so you're saying Peterson is an idiot then?  Because the NYT article says

 

 

 

  Quote

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy.

 

And if someone's proposal for a solution is something that is already in place, they would be a dumb person.  Is this what you are saying?  edit: oh you added more, so what sort of harsher look on divorce?

that it shouldnt be a very straightforward thing to get unless is unsafe for the children or the persons involved.. i again dont know the law in canada so maybe this is already the case

in which case he would be a dumb person by your definition

edit: ah how it would get him laid? i think the implication is that trough a monogamous family, generally, people would learn to take personal responsibility more often.. but i cant answer that properly, i am not jbp so i dont know what he means exactly 

is odd that he gives the answer to what society should do instead of what the individual should do.. 

  On 5/20/2018 at 1:55 PM, psn said:

I will watch but with the audio muted and listening to this https://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/basketball-dog

i dunno maybe the right music can xpose the fakeness/assholery of body language, I get worried sometimes

  On 5/20/2018 at 9:32 PM, MIXL2 said:

that it shouldnt be a very straightforward thing to get unless is unsafe for the children or the persons involved.. i again dont know the law in canada so maybe this is already the case

 

in which case he would be a dumb person by your definition

 

edit: ah how it would get him laid? i think the implication is that trough a monogamous family, generally, people would learn to take personal responsibility more often.. but i cant answer that properly, i am not jbp so i dont know what he means exactly 

 

is odd that he gives the answer to what society should do instead of what the individual should do.. 

 

you know that's a weak answer, right?  this is someone you think is worth advocating for?

i know, we'll see how it plays out.. and yes, very much so

when listing his achivements the nyt article pointed at how much money he made, how much people he atracted etc... not at how many people he had saved from suicide or how many people's lives he had improved, recognize propaganda for what it is.

  On 5/20/2018 at 2:04 PM, triachus said:

jfc

lol

  On 5/20/2018 at 8:54 PM, MIXL2 said:

flol "small middle class" there is no bloody lower class/proletariat in sweden. if people here do not get ahead is their own bloody fault and i stand by that.

 

edit: I have seen real poverty and real suffering in colombia, indonesia and brazil (examples of countries where the overarching hierarchy is predicated on power and NOT on competence). is insulting to call a country that has come so far ahead to the point that someone who cleans toilets can buy a house (and live a middle class life by any international standards) unequal in opportunity. (note: this is referring to a first generation immigrant who does not speak the language)

just to be clear, your position is that in Sweden everyone has a high standard of living, even those who clean toilets, so it’s personal fault if an individual doesn’t get ahead but also it’s completelt unfair that universities are hiring too many women?

generally, his position is that winners deserve everything they get and losers/weirdos just eat it cos that's just how it is. more specifically, winners equate to people who have traditionally held power (male, white, rich cunts) and losers equate to people who are increasingly demanding their fair share of power (women, darkies, poor cunts), thus upsetting the usual balance and creating confusion into which step surrogate dad figures like JBP. this sort of regressive social-darwinist thinking dovetails perfectly with what he espouses, and also comes somewhat naturally with being a trolly little 21 yr old who thinks they've got everything figured out without having educated themselves on anything.

bear in mind this is all coming from someone who migrated to Sweden from a 3rd world country, reaping benefits from this for himself through no real effort of his own, yet somehow thinks it justified to deny these benefits to other prospective migrants by buying into the anti-migrant hysteria centred around Sweden, whilst trying to obscure his own origin. the hypocrisy of this is more deserving of scorn than anything else, nevermind the JBP-fandom.