2020 US Election

  On 7/19/2024 at 8:09 AM, ignatius said:

is this real life?

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  On 7/19/2024 at 7:12 PM, decibal cooper said:

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everyone hated hulk hogan. he sabotaged the efforts of the wrestlers trying to organize to form a union so they could be treated fairly. he threw them under the bus and crawled up vince macmahon's asshole. he's a real fucking stooge and is the kind of guy who would name names under pressure.

  On 7/19/2024 at 4:30 PM, Rubin Farr said:

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THAT was the face I was looking for! I was searching for “Bruce Campbell “make-up” and “chin” yesterday and couldn’t find what I was looking for. 
 

good job!

  On 7/19/2024 at 8:32 PM, Squee said:

THAT was the face I was looking for! I was searching for “Bruce Campbell “make-up” and “chin” yesterday and couldn’t find what I was looking for. 
 

good job!

  On 7/19/2024 at 7:41 PM, ignatius said:

everyone hated hulk hogan. he sabotaged the efforts of the wrestlers trying to organize to form a union so they could be treated fairly. he threw them under the bus and crawled up vince macmahon's asshole. he's a real fucking stooge and is the kind of guy who would name names under pressure.

This tracks. Selfish usually equals conservative.

bunch more articles in major outlets on dems vs biden.

nyt:

also poltico: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/17/california-democratic-delegates-private-chats-biden-00169210

bunch of others out there

seems now we're in the phase of a leak campaign to pressure him through the media. effectively, thinly veiled public messages.  

now confirmed rift between biden and obama over this. apparently, there's an understanding that obama is on the side of biden leaving the race, though this nyt article says obama didn't offer his advice to biden directly. 

looks like pelosi is orchestrating things behind the scenes. apparently she favors an open nomination process, rather than just giving it to kamala

apparently there's a big facebook group of delegates being antsy

big donors are really drying up, which is a major factor. like july donations are cut in half. 

reporting that dates and venues of announcing leaving the race are being strategized among inner circle, though as of late friday biden still saying he hasn't changed his mind 

fucking christ. 

  On 7/20/2024 at 8:38 PM, may be rude said:

bunch more articles in major outlets on dems vs biden.

nyt:

  Reveal hidden contents

Secluded in Rehoboth, Biden Stews at Allies’ Pressure to Drop Out of the Race
As he recovers from Covid, the president has grown resentful toward Democratic congressional leaders and former President Barack Obama.

By Peter Baker, Michael D. Shear and Katie Rogers
The reporters cover the White House.

July 19, 2024
Sick with Covid and abandoned by allies, President Biden has been fuming at his Delaware beach house, increasingly resentful about what he sees as an orchestrated campaign to drive him out of the race and bitter toward some of those he once considered close, including his onetime running mate Barack Obama.

Mr. Biden has been around politics long enough to assume that the leaks appearing in the media in recent days are being coordinated to raise the pressure on him to step aside, according to people close to him. He considers Representative Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, the main instigator, but is irritated at Mr. Obama as well, seeing him as a puppet master behind the scenes.

The friction between the sitting president and leaders of his own party so close to an election is unlike anything seen in Washington in generations — especially because the Democrats now working to ease him out were some of the allies most critical to his success over the last dozen years. It was Mr. Obama who elevated Mr. Biden from a presidential also-ran to the vice presidency, setting him up to win the White House in 2020, and it was Ms. Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, who pushed through his landmark legislative achievements.

But several people close to Mr. Biden, who insisted on anonymity to discuss internal matters, described an under-the-weather president coughing and hacking more than a hundred miles from the corridors of power as his presidency meets its most perilous moment.

He has watched with rising exasperation as a succession of news stories appeared, one after the other, reporting that Mr. Schumer, Ms. Pelosi, Mr. Obama and Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, the House Democratic leader, all had warned of a devastating defeat for the party in November.

And he certainly noticed that Mr. Obama has not done anything to help him in recent days even as his own former aides publicly have led the way in calling on Mr. Biden to withdraw in what was interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a message from the former president’s camp. The unseen but clearly felt presence of Mr. Obama in particular has brought a Shakespearean quality to the drama now playing out, given their eight-year partnership.

While Mr. Biden and his team publicly insist that he is staying in the race, privately people close to him have said that he is increasingly accepting that he may not be able to, and some have begun discussing dates and venues for a possible announcement that he is stepping aside.

One factor that may stretch out a decision: Advisers believe that Mr. Biden would not want to do it before Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel visits Washington on Wednesday at the initiative of Republicans to address Congress, unwilling to give the premier the satisfaction given their strained relations lately over the Gaza war.

Yet Mr. Biden bristles at pressure and those pushing him risk getting his back up and prompting him to remain after all. Two people familiar with his thinking said he had not changed his mind as of Friday afternoon.

Mr. Biden reportedly has noticed that former Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton both have done little to help him in recent days even as their own former aides publicly led the way in calling on Mr. Biden to withdraw from the race. Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times
In privately railing about Mr. Obama and even aides to former President Bill Clinton, Mr. Biden has made clear that he finds it particularly rich that the architects of historic Democratic losses in the 1994 and 2010 midterm elections would be lecturing him about how to save the party after he presided over a better-than-expected midterm in 2022. While one person said Mr. Biden is not irked at Mr. Clinton himself — in fact, he is grateful the former president has been pressing donors to keep giving — others said that Mr. Obama is another story.

“We have to cauterize this wound right now and the sooner we can do it the better,” said Representative Gerald E. Connolly, Democrat of Virginia, who has not publicly called for the president to step aside. He said the barrage of criticism must be difficult for Mr. Biden. “I mean, to me, this is very painful. I think it just shows the cold calculus of politics.”

More congressional Democrats publicly called on the president on Friday to pass the torch to another candidate to take on former President Donald J. Trump in the fall. Among them were Senator Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio and at least nine House Democrats, including Representative Zoe Lofgren, a close ally of Ms. Pelosi, her fellow Californian.

The fact that Ms. Pelosi’s allies have been coming out is seen as no coincidence at the president’s vacation house in Rehoboth Beach, Del. When another of her allies, Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, spoke out earlier this week, a Biden administration official noted that it might be Mr. Schiff’s lips moving, but it was Ms. Pelosi doing the speaking.

Mr. Biden views Representative Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, as the main instigator of the calls for him to step aside.Credit...Haiyun Jiang for The New York Times
It has not just been her allies. Representative Seth Moulton, Democrat of Massachusetts and a Pelosi rival, said on Friday that Mr. Biden, “a mentor and friend” who had helped him get elected to the House in 2014, “didn’t seem to recognize me” when they met at the D-Day anniversary commemoration in France last month.

“Of course, that can happen as anyone ages, but as I watched the disastrous debate a few weeks ago, I have to admit that what I saw in Normandy was part of a deeper problem,” Mr. Moulton wrote in the Boston Globe, repeating his call for Mr. Biden to drop out.

Our politics reporters. Times journalists are not allowed to endorse or campaign for candidates or political causes. That includes participating in rallies and donating money to a candidate or cause.

Mr. Biden pushed back on Friday with a statement vowing to continue the race. “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone,” he said.

The White House and the Biden campaign have denied that he is about to drop out. “Absolutely, the president is in this race,” Jennifer O’Malley Dillon, the campaign chairwoman, said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Friday, one of the president’s favorite shows and a regular venue for Democrats speaking to other Democrats. “You’ve heard him say that time and time again.”

She acknowledged, though, that the campaign has seen erosion. “I’m not here to say that this hasn’t been a tough several weeks for the campaign,” she said. “There’s no doubt that it has been. And we’ve definitely seen some slippage in support, but it has been a small movement.” She argued that polls show the race was “hardened already” before the debate and so not that many voters have shifted since.

“The American people know that the president is older,” she said. “They see that. They knew that before the debate. Yes, of course, we have a lot of work to do to make sure that we are reassuring the American people that, yes, he’s old, but he can do the job and he can win.”

Representative Seth Moulton, Democrat of Massachusetts, said Mr. Biden “didn’t seem to recognize me” when they met at the D-Day anniversary commemoration in France last month.Credit...Jim Wilson/The New York Times
All of the political machinations were occurring as the president was fighting off symptoms from Covid in isolation in Rehoboth. He was still coughing and hoarse on Friday, but he was improving, according to his doctor. Jill Biden was with him, although staying in a separate room.

Among those with him in Rehoboth this weekend will be his aides Steve Ricchetti and Annie Tomasini. Anthony Bernal, the first lady’s chief of staff, accompanied her. It was unclear if Mr. Biden would still return to Washington on Sunday as planned, but he was tentatively scheduled to travel on Wednesday to Austin, Texas, for a postponed celebration of the 60th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act at the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library.

Mr. Biden’s pique at his former partner, Mr. Obama, represents the latest chapter in a complicated relationship. While not close when they teamed up to run in 2008, they became friends over their two terms in the White House together, bonding especially when Mr. Biden’s son Beau died in 2015.

But Mr. Biden has nursed a grudge ever since Mr. Obama gently discouraged him from running for president in 2016, steering the Democratic nomination to Hillary Clinton, who lost to Mr. Trump. So Mr. Obama’s advice may not be particularly welcome in Rehoboth at this point, which is perhaps one reason the former president is not offering it directly, according to people close to him.

Mr. Obama last saw Mr. Biden at a lavish, record-setting Hollywood fund-raiser before the debate in June, when the two appeared onstage together. At the end, Mr. Obama appeared to be leading Mr. Biden offstage. One former Obama aide who was present that night said that it was clear that the former president was startled and shaken by how much Mr. Biden had aged and seemed disoriented.

That fund-raiser was the last big haul for the campaign, which had hoped to raise about $50 million this month from large donors for the Biden Victory Fund, just as it did in June. But after the debate, it may collect less than $25 million in July, an excruciatingly modest sum for a summer month in a presidential race, according to four people briefed on the campaign’s finances. The campaign is not required to disclose its July fund-raising numbers until mid-August, and a spokeswoman dismissed the reports as “speculation.”

As they try to influence Mr. Biden, many associates are holding back from harsh public statements because they feel empathy for him and worry such statements might backfire. Going public, some said, might cause the president to dig in even more. And some were reluctant to have their names attached to statements because they worry about his reaction to a pile-on from his friends.

While the roughly 40 members of Congress who have publicly called on the president to leave the race represents a minority, privately dozens more are said to agree. Two House Democrats estimated that on a secret ballot 70 percent to 80 percent of their caucus would prefer Mr. Biden to withdraw.

“They’re not going to be able to contain this. I think the dam has broken,” Mr. Connolly said. Even before Friday’s announcements, he said, “my sense was that a majority of my colleagues were so uneasy they would welcome a decision to change horses.”

Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware and one of the president’s closest allies, made an impassioned defense of his ability to serve a second term. Speaking from the stage of the Aspen Security Conference in Colorado, Mr. Coons cited the president’s work hosting a NATO summit as well as his recent news conference and campaign events. “There are folks still saying he is not strong enough or capable enough to be our next president,” Mr. Coons said. “I disagree.”

Reporting was contributed by Carl Hulse in Washington, David E. Sanger in Aspen and Reid J. Epstein in Milwaukee.

Peter Baker is the chief White House correspondent for The Times. He has covered the last five presidents and sometimes writes analytical pieces that place presidents and their administrations in a larger context and historical framework. More about Peter Baker

Michael D. Shear is a White House correspondent for The New York Times, covering President Biden and his administration. He has reported on politics for more than 30 years. More about Michael D. Shear

Katie Rogers is a White House correspondent. For much of the past decade, she has focused on features about the presidency, the first family, and life in Washington, in addition to covering a range of domestic and foreign policy issues. She is the author of a book on first ladies. More about Katie Rogers
 

also poltico: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/17/california-democratic-delegates-private-chats-biden-00169210

bunch of others out there

seems now we're in the phase of a leak campaign to pressure him through the media. effectively, thinly veiled public messages.  

now confirmed rift between biden and obama over this. apparently, there's an understanding that obama is on the side of biden leaving the race, though this nyt article says obama didn't offer his advice to biden directly. 

looks like pelosi is orchestrating things behind the scenes. apparently she favors an open nomination process, rather than just giving it to kamala

apparently there's a big facebook group of delegates being antsy

big donors are really drying up, which is a major factor. like july donations are cut in half. 

reporting that dates and venues of announcing leaving the race are being strategized among inner circle, though as of late friday biden still saying he hasn't changed his mind 

fucking christ. 

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i have the feeling this whole process will be driven into the ditch.  pelosi is capable politician/negotiator but dems have a history of just absolutely shitting the bed when it counts and this complicated process with all the appearances that need to come off well is going to be a nightmare to manage if it does indeed happen. 

So people compare Trump to Hitler and so here and like he is the devil himself. 
It feels like people are mostly just super angry of that Storming of Capitolium and the ol "he is a criminal" talk..

..But can anyone here points out the things u did not like about Trump when he was running president for the country? 
Like he made some new laws that was totally crazy or started a big war or killed someone? 

  On 7/20/2024 at 9:57 PM, cern said:

So people compare Trump to Hitler and so here and like he is the devil himself. 
It feels like people are mostly just super angry of that Storming of Capitolium and the ol "he is a criminal" talk..

..But can anyone here points out the things u did not like about Trump when he was running president for the country? 
Like he made some new laws that was totally crazy or started a big war or killed someone? 

Well how good is your memory? Aside from the nasty shit he was saying pretty much every day, I think a big problem was not only was he unable to actually govern, but didn't even show much interest in it.  His backers got a few things through his clusterfuck revolving-door administration and it was all negative: tax cuts for the rich which apparently blew a hole in the deficit, stuffing the supreme court and outlawing abortion in red states to start.

Plus there was that whole coup attempt after losing the election.

I mean there's a whole load of stuff out there, assuming you're asking this question in good faith maybe start with Fear or Peril by Bob Woodward. Both pretty thorough accounts of the non stop fuckups that went on through his term.

Add the intervening 4 years of grievance and senility, combined with a dangerously reactionary far-right plan for taking over all aspects of government funded by libertarian tech-bros, you've got a lot to be worried about.

  On 7/20/2024 at 10:43 PM, danshoebridge said:

Aside from the nasty shit he was saying pretty much every day, I think a big problem was not only was he unable to actually govern, but didn't even show much interest in it. 

I always found this politico article from 2021 helpful for examining a lot of the things that his administration did for better and for worse. Seems like a balanced take on his years in office and the policy changes that were made, although I was not following so closely at the time (except for foreign policy) so cannot say for sure.

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:05 PM, decibal cooper said:

I always found this politico article from 2021 helpful for examining a lot of the things that his administration did for better and for worse. Seems like a balanced take on his years in office and the policy changes that were made, although I was not following so closely at the time (except for foreign policy) so cannot say for sure.

 

 

and there's a lot not in there. .to get a full recap someone would have to stitch together many sources.. but.. put forward lot's of unqualified federal judges (for effects of this just look at the headlines recently), gutted the state department, left positions unfilled in numerous agencies, promoted cronyism everywhere... there's a lot more.. he further divided the country, promoted conspiracies, cozied up to dictators etc... 

@cern you raise a good point. Here's my take but I'm actually in the UK so probably biased but anyway:

USA being a two party system means they are both always hovering near 50% and fighting over the small amount of undecideds in the middle. Two party system also makes it very hard for any third parties to get started.

USA politics in global terms is pretty narrow and boring, there's not much of a spectrum really, you've got "right" and "center-right" arguing with each other

But winning the USA election is also the most important thing in the world, like objectively, so much power there up for grabs

So both sides have been upping the ante for decades. Because you need to get people motivated to go out and vote. So its not just 'our side is right and their side is wrong'. Its 'their side is crazy and they are going to destroy everything'.

Every change of president in recent history has been contested by the other side as illigitimate:

GW Bush: 2000: florida recount controversy, Dems say he cheated
Obama: 2008: the birthers saying he wasn't a citizen
Trump: 2016: Dems say he cheated by using russian psyops etc
Biden: 2020: maga say the election was stolen etc

Clinton 1992 was a bit before my time but was there a similar controversy then? Something about Clintons propery deals and they tried to impeach him?

Which is to say that the stakes are so high for the US presidential election that the gentlemanly response of 'aw shucks we didn't win this time, lets regroup and try again in 4 years time' never happens any more. Because both sides need to keep their voters angry and engaged. So its always 'they cheated and the media is biased and they are going to destroy democracy and this next election is the most important one ever'

THAT SAID: I do think Trump is a bit dangerous, in a sortof rambly chaotic kind of way, but I think its important to see it all in the context of what I've explained above. He'll probably win, and like I said in earlier posts, the people voting for him do understand what they'll be getting mostly so what can you do? Dont panic, keep him in check then hopefully we can wave goodbye to him for good in 2028.

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:51 PM, zazen said:

GW Bush: 2000: florida recount controversy, Dems say he cheated

this one was the weirdest one really. the "hanging chad" voting punch cards in florida are what fucked it all up.  the case went to the supreme court who basically installed Bush as president. Gore could've kept fighting but took the high road. there's a couple worthwhile docs.. frontline etc.. about the 2000 election and how it went down if anyone is curious about the details. 

https://www.documentarytube.com/best-of/the-7-best-documentaries-about-2000-election/

  On 7/20/2024 at 9:57 PM, cern said:

So people compare Trump to Hitler and so here and like he is the devil himself. 
It feels like people are mostly just super angry of that Storming of Capitolium and the ol "he is a criminal" talk..

..But can anyone here points out the things u did not like about Trump when he was running president for the country? 
Like he made some new laws that was totally crazy or started a big war or killed someone? 

• thousands of kids were separated from their parents and shipped around the country without tracking who their parents are, and their parents were deported. it seemed to be intentional cruelty that strangely lends itself to human trafficking 
• he tried to overthrow democracy
• a million died unnecessarily of pandemic
• his handling of covid was a major factor in the economy utterly tanking
• his response to covid made it much worse, contributing to the supply chain problems that resulted in global inflation
• north korea became a nuclear power
• he nearly started a war with iran, coincidentally while the senate was trying him for impeachment
• he obstructed justice while the fbi was investigating his ties to russian intelligence
• he stopped and reversed progress on the greenhouse gas probelm
• he gave corporations greenlights to pollute however they wanted
• appointed justices who overturned roe vs wade
• appointed justices who decided presidents cannot be charged for abuse of doj
• actively threatens and blackmails others in order to consolidate power by force 
• continued the afghan war
• his state dept negotiated a deal with the taliban that allowed thousands of taliban to be released from prison, significantly contributing to the rapid overtaking of the afghan government by the taliban as american forces were preparing to leave
• instructed his doj to investigate and prosecute poltical opponents and public servants who crossed him

a few things off the top of my head. democracy is quite a big one. it's the whole game. there is simply no rational argument to vote for trump, for anyone well-informed. he is curiously close to the precise definition of the exact weak point of the country, a deceitful and malignant demagogue bent on bribery and collusion with foreign powers, willing to abuse power and cling to power by any means necessary, out of self-interest. this is the weak point of democracy and how it can tip authoritarian. that's why people treat the threat with such seriousness, because it is serious.

here's an insider's view on the trump administration. she worked for DOJ under trump. 

  On 7/20/2024 at 9:57 PM, cern said:

..But can anyone here points out the things u did not like about Trump when he was running president for the country? 
Like he made some new laws that was totally crazy or started a big war or killed someone? 

have you been asleep since 2016?

Hey guys, check this out!

  On 7/21/2024 at 7:58 PM, Silent Member said:

Hey guys, check this out!

 

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i really hope this works