2024 US Election

  On 10/29/2024 at 12:04 PM, Rubin Farr said:

When can we start the 2028 thread

In 2030

maddow does good work. be advised: the people doing good work get targeted and attacked by the bullshit pedalers. 

plenty of posters try to look smarter than everybody by trying to smack down some shit they didn't watch because it's labeled "msnbc." that's worse than an ad hominem, and it frankly spreads a misleading mirror attack spearheaded by the likes of trump, who frequently tries to discredit outlets that post real journalism, which commonly illuminates his wrong doings. rightists are aware that many people loudly decry fox news and other rightist outlets that pedal terrorist brain poison, so they need to match it by loudly bemoaning some lefty media. the parrots of the right try to paint msnbc as purely lefty partisan, but chuck todd ran the politics division of msnbc for years and he's a champing conservative. nicole wallace has 10 hours per week and she was in the bush administration. joe scarborough has a show weekday mornings and he was an elected republican in congress. tim miller, jeb bush's campaign manager, is on all the time. michael steele, former chair of the RNC, is on all the time. it's not simply partisan, that's a dumb and inaccurate misdirection. i'm not saying msnbc is entirely awesome. TV news in general is a relic from the 1950s, it's not the place to go, anymore. but many individuals spend their lives pursuing journalism or politics, with good morals, strong abilities, and righteous motivations. many of them make it to being successful journalists, and many end up at msnbc, like maddow, melber, and others. some hosts lazily pedal partisan rhetoric but some like maddow and melber do really stellar stuff.

from her oct 28 show, 8 days before election day. i like how she mentioned trump lying about trump tower moscow negotiations (ongoing during the 2016 campaign, promising to be his most lucrative deal ever), and his campaign manager, manafort, passing internal campaign data to russian intel officier kilimnik. manafort had his associate, gates, regularly passing internal polling data to kilimnik, for several weeks in 2016. gates admitted this to the feds. manafort and kilimnik met secretively in a cigar bar, where gates witnessed them talking about trump campaign strategy. this was as russia was working to help trump win in the 2016 election. it's detailed in the bipartisan senate select committee on intelligence's "russia report" pt 5 from 2020. the trump tower moscow example and the manafort kilimnik example are two well-substantiated and clearly concerning pieces of evidence about the trump/putin connection. not sure if those made it into these youtubes but you can get the full audio of the show from the podcast feed.

  On 10/29/2024 at 2:25 PM, may be rude said:

maddow does good work. be advised: the people doing good work get targeted and attacked by the bullshit pedalers. 

plenty of posters try to look smarter than everybody by trying to smack down some shit they didn't watch because it's labeled "msnbc." that's worse than an ad hominem, and it frankly spreads a misleading mirror attack spearheaded by the likes of trump, who frequently tries to discredit outlets that post real journalism, which commonly illuminates his wrong doings. rightists are aware that many people loudly decry fox news and other rightist outlits that pedal terrorist brain poison, so they need to match it by loudly bemoaning some lefty media. the parrots of the right try to paint msnbc as purely lefty partisan, but chuck todd ran the politics division of msnbc for years and he's a champing conservative. nicole wallace has 10 hours per week and she was in the bush administration. joe scarborough has a show weekday mornings and he was an elected republican in congress. tim miller, jeb bush's campaign manager, is on all the time. michael steele, former chair of the RNC, is on all the time. it's not simply partisan, that's a dumb and inaccurate misdirection. i'm not saying msnbc is entirely awesome. TV news in general is a relic from the 1950s, it's not the place to go, anymore. but many individuals spend their lives pursuing journalism or politics, with good morals, strong abilities, and righteous motivations. many of them make it to being successful journalists, and many end up at msnbc, like maddow, melber, and others. some hosts lazily pedal partisan rhetoric but some like maddow and melber do really stellar stuff.

from her oct 28 show, 8 days before election day. i like how she mentioned trump lying about trump tower moscow negotiations (ongoing during the 2016 campaign, promising to be his most lucrative deal ever), and his campaign manager, manafort, passing internal campaign data to russian intel officier kilimnik. manafort had his associate, gates, regularly passing internal polling data to kilimnik, for several weeks in the summer of 2016. manafort and kilimnik met secretively in a cigar bar, where gates witnessed them talking about trump campaign strategy. this was as russia was working to help trump win in the 2016 election. it's detailed in the bipartisan senate select committee on intelligence's "russia report" pt 5 from 2020. the trump tower moscow example and the manafort kilimnik example are two well-substantiated and clearly concerning pieces of evidence about the trump/putin connection. not sure if those made it into these youtubes but you can get the full audio of the show from the podcast feed.

 

 

 

 

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She does more research than most of her colleagues on that network, yet she’s dismissed by a portion of society for being an LGBTQ woman.
The sexual divide in this country should be more alarming to people, it will only grow if left unchecked. 

Fuck your dumb as shit boomer takes, fronting like Putin or Russia has more influence on American politics and foreign policy than Israel- it is pathetic and tiresome 

  On 10/29/2024 at 3:38 PM, decibal cooper said:

Fuck your dumb as shit boomer takes, fronting like Putin or Russia has more influence on American politics and foreign policy than Israel- it is pathetic and tiresome 

A) be nicer. 
B) the two states have far different effects on American politics and policy. Israel’s goals are clear (whatever to make Israel stronger) and usually fairly transparent, while Russia’s are not as straightforward and are generally undertaken to weaken America and then  to strengthen Russia, or at least Putin’s position in Russia. 

awkward

  On 10/29/2024 at 3:38 PM, decibal cooper said:

Fuck your dumb as shit boomer takes, fronting like Putin or Russia has more influence on American politics and foreign policy than Israel- it is pathetic and tiresome 

quite the strawman fallacy. look over there!

trump sucks netanyahu's dick. but you don't care, you're here laying junk. 

  On 10/29/2024 at 4:41 PM, chenGOD said:

A) be nicer. 
B) the two states have far different effects on American politics and policy. Israel’s goals are clear (whatever to make Israel stronger) and usually fairly transparent, while Russia’s are not as straightforward and are generally undertaken to weaken America and then  to strengthen Russia, or at least Putin’s position in Russia. 

I doubt that Russia could even come close to weakening and undermining America and its position in the world, even if they devoted massive resources to doing so, compared with Israel. We are no longer top dog and we have to start cooperating with the rest of the world, doing diplomacy, etc. if we continue using military interventions and sanctions, and offering no condemnation of what Israel does then there is little chance of avoiding something drastic like an American first strike nuclear war. Harris could speak up and advocate for an arms embargo, but she offers platitudes and silence. There is a decent chance that she will lose key swing states for not speaking out on this issue, and the Democratic Party is signaling that they will choose to unconditionally support Likud even if it means that they lose a national election.

  On 10/29/2024 at 5:10 PM, decibal cooper said:

I doubt that Russia could even come close to weakening and undermining America and its position in the world, even if they devoted massive resources to doing so, compared with Israel. We are no longer top dog and we have to start cooperating with the rest of the world, doing diplomacy, etc. if we continue using military interventions and sanctions, and offering no condemnation of what Israel does then there is little chance of avoiding something drastic like an American first strike nuclear war. Harris could speak up and advocate for an arms embargo, but she offers platitudes and silence. There is a decent chance that she will lose key swing states for not speaking out on this issue, and the Democratic Party is signaling that they will choose to unconditionally support Likud even if it means that they lose a national election.

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russia has helped break brains in america w/social media trolls etc. they've been pretty effective at manipulating segments of the american population. also funneling money to podcast hosts etc who shit out their propaganda. so, this kind of thing aligns w/trumpism and all these idiots wearing "better red than democrat" t-shirts and generally the whole thing about putin being a good guy.. trump himself is guided by this kind of shit and wants to be spooning russia at night to make sure vlad is happy and getting all his geopolitical needs.. 

so, it's not false to think that russia and putin are doing a thing for better or worse and trump is one of their useful idiots. 

but i agree that isreal has way more grip on america in general via AIPAC and all the lobbying and funding of campaigns they do.. and they have even bigger sway over a segment of the american population of a certain age mostly but even some younger people think israel should he able to simply wipe out all of gaza to the last human being and then do the same in the west bank etc.. but generally these people are uninformed and don't understand why the west bank is usually referred to as the "occupied west bank".. so the propaganda and lazy thinking are full on in their brains. 

but israel has long had a big sway over US foreign policy in the region to varying degrees depending on who was in power and hard line that president/congress was willing to take on israeli actions... 

regarding russia it's a big "we'll see" because if BRICS takes off and they manage to de-dollar some portions of global trade things will happen/change etc. 

harris isn't going to rock the boat on israel before the election.. or perhaps even after.. no idea what she'll do other than say "please calm down and stop killing civilians" or something.. she could take a hard line if she's elected and stop aid but isn't going to say so before the election. 

but we know what trump will do.  further arm israel and embolden them to bomb whoever they want w/full USA assistance. 

  On 10/29/2024 at 5:10 PM, decibal cooper said:

I doubt that Russia could even come close to weakening and undermining America and its position in the world, even if they devoted massive resources to doing so, compared with Israel. We are no longer top dog and we have to start cooperating with the rest of the world, doing diplomacy, etc. if we continue using military interventions and sanctions, and offering no condemnation of what Israel does then there is little chance of avoiding something drastic like an American first strike nuclear war. Harris could speak up and advocate for an arms embargo, but she offers platitudes and silence. There is a decent chance that she will lose key swing states for not speaking out on this issue, and the Democratic Party is signaling that they will choose to unconditionally support Likud even if it means that they lose a national election.

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Do you think Trump and the Republicans would be better or worse than the Democrats in supporting the Zionist state?

  On 10/29/2024 at 7:54 PM, chenGOD said:

Do you think Trump and the Republicans would be better or worse than the Democrats in supporting the Zionist state?

Fuck you chengod, also really tired of this ‘oh hey trump will be bad if not worse’ - that’s no excuse for what these animals are doing in our name and with our money (if you American)

  On 10/29/2024 at 7:58 PM, decibal cooper said:

Fuck you chengod, also really tired of this ‘oh hey trump will be bad if not worse’ - that’s no excuse for what these animals are doing in our name and with our money (if you American)

of course not.. but it matters because we have a choice to make and a protest vote for jill stein or Captain America or whoever is not going to help anyone in any way... but there's no forgiveness coming from me for any of them. but again.. what is there to do about it? other than millions of people in the streets.... or general strike.. or whatever.. sitting out the election isn't an option to me. i'm not into the accelerationism something point to as a solution for speeding up revolt.. i just don't think it works that way. 

but whatever..  there's many reasons trump would be awful.. not just foreign policy.. so, for me, easy choice. 

You guys are all a bunch of fucking limp dicked pussies

  On 10/29/2024 at 7:58 PM, decibal cooper said:

Fuck you chengod, also really tired of this ‘oh hey trump will be bad if not worse’ - that’s no excuse for what these animals are doing in our name and with our money (if you American)

a) be nicer

b) answer the question? Like do you understand that progress is not linear, but you have to pick the better option all the time even if the choice is between a bag of shit and a flaming bag of shit? 
It’s not an excuse and no one could ever say the Democratic Party is blameless or perfect, but they are so much better than Trump would ever be. 

It’s 4 am here so only one link, but really, https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/25/joe-biden-and-donald-trump-on-israel-and-gaza-comp/

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:03 PM, decibal cooper said:

You guys are all a bunch of fucking limp dicked pussies

you're a needle dick beetle fucker. 

go vote for orange macho man trump if that makes you feel manly manly big haard peepee.  he big strong man. need strong man to fix country. 

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:03 PM, decibal cooper said:

You guys are all a bunch of fucking limp dicked pussies

I mean, I did ask you politely to be nicer. 
But I guess a little timeout is in order. Have a good weekend! 

I share the dislike of Trump that a lot of people here voice. But 75 million people voted for him in 2020 (against 81 million for Biden and the approx 78 million eligible voters who didnt vote at all) so thats a hard thing to deal with. Can 75 million people be stupid? Seems like you'd have to redefine the word stupid if it applies to 1/3 of your country's voters. I suppose we can say (of eligible voters) 66% didn't vote for him, thats something.

Like I said in the other thread a while back, when Trump won in 2016 people didn't really know what to expect, but I'd say that the people voting for him this time do broadly know what they are voting for, what sort of president he'll be: He'll talk a lot of crap, piss the other side off, generally chaotic administration with lots of resignations. And so if he has a (clear) win this time, you've sortof got to accept it as the democractic process, right? (note: no presidential win in the last 25 years has been 'accepted' by the other side, the days of 'aw shucks we lost this time lets hope our guy does better in 4 years time' is long gone, the losing side always deploys rage and threats of impeachment at the illegitimate winner now. Stakes are too high and engagement is too important, neither side can just accept a loss)

And so although I'd love to see Trump lose, the results I'd like to see, in order are:

• Clear Harris win
  if not that then
• Clear Trump win
  and least desirable of all:
• Messy complicated too close result.

NB: Not a US citizen, just watching. FWIW I think if he wins it'll be a challenging time but not the end of the world. Every election everywhere is always 'the most important election ever' because engagement is everything.

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:08 PM, ignatius said:

 

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  On 10/29/2024 at 8:03 PM, decibal cooper said:

You guys are all a bunch of fucking limp dicked pussies

Dude, you need to grow up.

No one is arguing that our choices aren't shitty, but the only logical and potentially effective way to make things better is to vote for harm reduction now and try to change shit grass roots.

If you don't like that course of action, please tell me how you think letting Trump and the Rs win this election will lead to a better future. I promise I'll take your argument in good faith.

major chengo you fuck energy itt

Going to be a long week.

Play at quarter speed & the demons come right through:

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:08 PM, chenGOD said:

I mean, I did ask you politely to be nicer. 
But I guess a little timeout is in order. Have a good weekend! 

  On 10/29/2024 at 7:58 PM, decibal cooper said:

Fuck you chengod, also really tired of this ‘oh hey trump will be bad if not worse’ - that’s no excuse for what these animals are doing in our name and with our money (if you American)

Except that this is a thread about an election where there are two choices basically, so it’s entirely legitimate to ask which choice will make the situation in the Middle East worse

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, zazen said:

I share the dislike of Trump that a lot of people here voice. But 75 million people voted for him in 2020 (against 81 million for Biden and the approx 78 million eligible voters who didnt vote at all) so thats a hard thing to deal with. Can 75 million people be stupid? Seems like you'd have to redefine the word stupid if it applies to 1/3 of your country's voters. I suppose we can say (of eligible voters) 66% didn't vote for him, thats something.

Like I said in the other thread a while back, when Trump won in 2016 people didn't really know what to expect, but I'd say that the people voting for him this time do broadly know what they are voting for, what sort of president he'll be:

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i don't agree that trump supporters have an accurate understanding of trump. if they really knew what we were dealing with then i think he would have 15% of his current support (just the "burn it down" segment).

the modern info space is very different. information doesn't propagate the way it used to. 

it used to be that important facts would get propagated throughout the country. think about "bombshells" like watergate. that's no longer the case.

we used to all share a handful of info sources. now, large populations isolate in their own info spaces. so, facts don't propagate. this has played a major roll in trump staying afloat. 

silos are a key aspect of the modern info space. another one is the subversion of truth. important facts may not be propagating around certain bubbles but you know what is? narratives that subvert those true facts. large populations are exposed to "debunking" of true information, without even really being exposed to the true information itself. 

anyway i know that your point was about accepting election results and i agree with that. and i'll note that hillary conceded the election, so did gore, kerry, mccain, and romney. there's no one who's contested an election like trump did.