On 10/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, zazen said:

Can 75 million people be stupid?

yes

Trump is promising deportations under the Alien Enemies Act of 1798. What is it?

  Quote

 

“I will invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to target and dismantle every migrant criminal network operating on American soil,” he said at a recent rally in California, one of several in which he has brought it up.

Trump is promising that, if reelected, he will use the act to initiate a federal effort called “Operation Aurora” — named after the Colorado town that he claims has been taken over by Venezuelan gangs, which residents and local officials dispute — to target undocumented migrant gang members for arrest and deportation.

 

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https://www.npr.org/2024/10/19/nx-s1-5156027/alien-enemies-act-1798-trump-immigration

last time it was used was to put Japanese Americans in internment camps

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, zazen said:

I share the dislike of Trump that a lot of people here voice. But 75 million people voted for him in 2020 (against 81 million for Biden and the approx 78 million eligible voters who didnt vote at all) so thats a hard thing to deal with. Can 75 million people be stupid? Seems like you'd have to redefine the word stupid if it applies to 1/3 of your country's voters. I suppose we can say (of eligible voters) 66% didn't vote for him, thats something.

Like I said in the other thread a while back, when Trump won in 2016 people didn't really know what to expect, but I'd say that the people voting for him this time do broadly know what they are voting for, what sort of president he'll be: He'll talk a lot of crap, piss the other side off, generally chaotic administration with lots of resignations. And so if he has a (clear) win this time, you've sortof got to accept it as the democractic process, right? (note: no presidential win in the last 25 years has been 'accepted' by the other side, the days of 'aw shucks we lost this time lets hope our guy does better in 4 years time' is long gone, the losing side always deploys rage and threats of impeachment at the illegitimate winner now. Stakes are too high and engagement is too important, neither side can just accept a loss)

And so although I'd love to see Trump lose, the results I'd like to see, in order are:

• Clear Harris win
  if not that then
• Clear Trump win
  and least desirable of all:
• Messy complicated too close result.

NB: Not a US citizen, just watching. FWIW I think if he wins it'll be a challenging time but not the end of the world. Every election everywhere is always 'the most important election ever' because engagement is everything.

 

 

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75 million people are not stupid - who knows what percentage are, I'd say a large percentage don't engage in critical thinking (while this also applies to democratic voters, they do tend to have higher education levels, which typically equates to more critical thinking being taught - appplication of course another matter).

So if 75 million people aren't stupid, what does that tell us about that portion of the electorate? It says they either a)don't understand the issues thanks to disinformation being propagated by foreign and domestic influences or b) they understand exactly what sort of president Trump will be and agree with his policies. Now, I'm an optimist and maybe naive, but I do not believe that many Americans support the racist and misogynistic policies that the Trump administration will push. I think like in many, many previous elections they have been taught to fear the other (think Willie Horton in Bush 1 as a specific example, middle easterners in general in Bush 2, Communists/Russians before that, etc. etc.). This time the other (illegal immigrants, feminists) they are being taught to fear is inside America itself, hence Trump's use of the ever so slightly Hitlerian phrase "the enemy within"*.

I'd also let the realist in me say say that a percentage of those 75 million are actual racists and misogynists and so they are emboldened, and what with group think/mob action being what it is, the remainder get swept up.

Also not an American, but since my country shares the longest undefended border with the US and they are our most important trading partner and general ally, what goes on down there is of vital importance to us up here in Canada.

*

kamala's closing message. good speech. 

  On 10/30/2024 at 12:22 AM, luke viia said:

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, zazen said:

Can 75 million people be stupid?

yes

I mean, try 8 billion.

  On 10/30/2024 at 3:47 AM, usagi said:

  On 10/30/2024 at 12:22 AM, luke viia said:

  On 10/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, zazen said:

Can 75 million people be stupid?

yes

I mean, try 8 billion.

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i think i’ve met like, 2 maybe 3 not stupid people in my entire life (self included but not one of the smart ones) so yeah i imagine 8 billion doofuses is a pretty good rough estimate 

  On 10/30/2024 at 3:47 AM, usagi said:

I mean, try 8 billion.

Ackshually 8.2 billion

Trump promises white people to get their white privilege back. He can do all the dances he wants they still are going to vote him for that. Also by telling them they are not going to have to vote again this will be permanent and by transforming the court he is already halfway there. 
 

people highly underestimate him by just judging his speeches and current performance. None of this matters for the long term as the actual targets are the ones mentioned above. He does the same to the women rights movement 

  On 10/30/2024 at 5:28 AM, chenGOD said:

Ackshually 8.2 billion

8,199,999,999 urself not included

  On 10/30/2024 at 2:30 PM, Dragon said:

8,199,999,999 urself not included

Ackshually I said what I meant and I meant what I said. 

  On 10/30/2024 at 1:57 AM, chenGOD said:

So if 75 million people aren't stupid, what does that tell us about that portion of the electorate? It says they either a)don't understand the issues thanks to disinformation being propagated by foreign and domestic influences or b) they understand exactly what sort of president Trump will be and agree with his policies.

the vibe I get after talking with people who are voting for him is that it's more of choice a than choice b.

I hear time and time again from people who are voting for him about how bad the other side is. that's all they talk about. they never want to talk about anything related to the policy crap he spews out, because that means they'd actually have to defend it - and they can't. because on some level they must know it's half-baked bullshit.

all they ever do is attack the dems, talking about how horrible everything is under Biden, how Kamala can't formulate an original thought blah blah blah. it's nothing more than blaming some invisible opposing force for everything wrong in their lives. IMO this is thanks to the fox news type brainwashing and trump doing this constantly over the past 10-20 years. there's never anything remotely realistic talked about regarding fixing issues, policies, etc. it's just attack attack attack all the time.

the psychology of this points in the direction that their emotions have been elevated and manipulated by bad actors. I don't mean to sound elitist, but it's true that a lot of that portion of the electorate don't have the emotional or general intelligence needed to be able to see any of this happening right in front of them. they are pawns in this donald-gets-everything-he-wants scheme. they've been tricked into believing so much disinformation that it's hard to see reality clearly when it comes to the current state of political issues in this country.

  On 10/30/2024 at 6:36 PM, ignatius said:

 

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What's the handsign they highlight at 1:44?

  On 10/30/2024 at 7:36 PM, Squee said:

What's the handsign they highlight at 1:44?

i think it's some whitepower/white pride/proud boys type shit. 

here's channel 5 in PA

  On 10/30/2024 at 6:06 PM, zero said:

the vibe I get after talking with people who are voting for him is that it's more of choice a than choice b.

I hear time and time again from people who are voting for him about how bad the other side is. that's all they talk about. they never want to talk about anything related to the policy crap he spews out, because that means they'd actually have to defend it - and they can't. because on some level they must know it's half-baked bullshit.

all they ever do is attack the dems, talking about how horrible everything is under Biden, how Kamala can't formulate an original thought blah blah blah. it's nothing more than blaming some invisible opposing force for everything wrong in their lives. IMO this is thanks to the fox news type brainwashing and trump doing this constantly over the past 10-20 years. there's never anything remotely realistic talked about regarding fixing issues, policies, etc. it's just attack attack attack all the time.

the psychology of this points in the direction that their emotions have been elevated and manipulated by bad actors. I don't mean to sound elitist, but it's true that a lot of that portion of the electorate don't have the emotional or general intelligence needed to be able to see any of this happening right in front of them. they are pawns in this donald-gets-everything-he-wants scheme. they've been tricked into believing so much disinformation that it's hard to see reality clearly when it comes to the current state of political issues in this country.

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I think we’re agreeing? If you’d quoted my second paragraph on the population not engaging in critical thinking and getting fed fear and disinformation….

what will he cosplay next?

  On 10/31/2024 at 5:03 AM, ignatius said:

what will he cosplay next?

Still waiting for his orange jumpsuit cosplay

  On 10/31/2024 at 5:03 AM, ignatius said:

what will he cosplay next?

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MMA fighter. 

  On 10/31/2024 at 5:03 AM, ignatius said:

what will he cosplay next?

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Harley Quinn? Sailor Moon? Shang Tsung?

I voted early. It was insanely efficient. 

  On 10/31/2024 at 12:04 PM, Hi Guys said:

I voted early. It was insanely efficient. 

Idk why I don’t do this

fascists hate this one simple trick!

a couple podcasts touching on what to expect if trump wins. think: insurrection act and weaponization of DOJ.

this one is with a former fbi special agent who investigated trump's connections to russian intelligence, and who was a counter intelligence specialist. also journalist ben wittes who does good work

 
this one is with andrew weissmann, a prosecutor who was in the mueller investigation and who put manafort in prison, and another former senior DOJ official:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-podcast/prosecuting-donald-trump/prosecuting-donald-trump-election-stakes-rcna177892

  On 10/31/2024 at 1:52 AM, chenGOD said:

I think we’re agreeing? If you’d quoted my second paragraph on the population not engaging in critical thinking and getting fed fear and disinformation….

I think so too? my intention wasn't to disagree with what you said, but to elaborate on why I thought the disinformation aspect is a stronger factor for why people will vote for him.

for example, I was talking with a guy I work with who is going to vote for him. the mass deportation thing came up and I mentioned how if something like this were to actually occur, then industries like farming and new home construction would lose a significant number of workers, which in turn would drive prices up for the rest of us. he agreed with this, but then quickly pivoted to something about how bad the dems are yadda yadda - and that was what I was getting at in my previous reply. trump voters can't logically defend anything he says on policy, can only quickly turn the discussion into an attack on the other side. classic smokescreen type arguing fueled by disinformation.