Burial & Four Tet - Moth / Wolf Cub

Santa Claus WHAT NOW?!?!

you motherfucker. :omg:

I normally think the simplest explanation is the best.. and for me the simplest explanation is that burial is just some guy that wants to make music without to much fuss. and from reading his interviews I have no reason to think he is lying about anything, sure he could be lying.. but then everybody could be lying all the time/

And it’s hardly like proving Santa or Jesus exist both of them apparently do (or did) impossible things, Burial isn’t claiming to do anything impossible.

Anyhow am not bothered how he makes his music I just like it cause it makes me feel all funny inside! Not sure what to make of these samples tho prob need to hear the full tracks to judge really .

that sounds really nice.

my brother has ordered it, so i'll just steal it off him.

  Ultravisitor said:

that sounds really nice.

 

my internets has ordered it, so i'll just steal it off him.

Aside from the twiddly chit chat about how he makes his tracks, these sound fucking lush. The 4/4 one in particular, gorgeous, esp when the Untrue style vocals come in, proper sent a shiver down my spine!

  Solo Strike said:

Aside from the twiddly chit chat about how he makes his tracks, these sound fucking lush. The 4/4 one in particular, gorgeous, esp when the Untrue style vocals come in, proper sent a shiver down my spine!

Agreed, two great tastes that taste great together!

  ieafs said:

fair enough if it was a really huge feat to make music solely in soundforge, but that's the thing - it's not! in fact i think that four tet used soundforge for his first couple of albums to... beak does quite edit-heavy fast percussive stuff in goldwave. just because you don't it doesn't mean that other people find it a perfectly fine way of making music.

i do not believe that other people find sound forge a perfectly fine way of making music unless they haven't used any other DAW programs yet, which i find very hard to believe unless you just start making music. If you still would characterize this as a conspiracy theory i think i've lost you, but it's very fair to call me an extreme musical production cynic. I think most long time music producers would agree that the claim of making entire songs in Sound Forge is a little bit far fetched.

Burials music is good on occasion, and i have no problem with him or his music.

edit: i have actual evidence to back up what im saying, not just pure cynicism.

try tap tempo on top of a burial track and you will find it's very easy to find an integer BPM value, which imo would be almost impossible to achieve if one was constructing loops from scratch in sound forge.

The myth at times even grows larger to the point of Beneboi claiming that 'Burial doesn't use loops' , that one i won't even waste energy on trying to dispel.

  Quote

you seem like a nice guy, but every now and then you have these really vaguely annoying conspiracy theories about the weirdest things.

my intention is not to be annoying, contrary or reactionary. it's in short my bull-shit detector going off and it's hard for me to keep it to myself.

There is no way complete tracks are being made entirely in Sound Forge and nothing else. Sample editing yes, but it is going in to a sequencer afterwards. It's just marketing and trying to create a myth around the guy, it's his gimmick isn't it?

  Awepittance said:

try tap tempo on top of a burial track and you will find it's very easy to find an integer BPM value, which imo would be almost impossible to achieve if one was constructing loops from scratch in sound forge.

it's easy to make a well-defined, multilayered loop with a kick at the start in a multitrack wave editor, and then perform a timestretch on that to make it fit a bpm

  Awepittance said:

The myth at times even grows larger to the point of Beneboi claiming that 'Burial doesn't use loops' , that one i won't even waste energy on trying to dispel.

i don't recall burial saying this though. i think beneboi and you both made silly blanket statements in that thread

  Awepittance said:

my intention is not to be annoying, contrary or reactionary. it's in short my bull-shit detector going off and it's hard for me to keep it to myself.

two things: burial (aka william bevan; went to school with joe goddard from hot chip and kieran hebden aka four tet, lives in london, low-key sort of guy) doesn't strike me as an rdj-style bullshitter, and it strikes me as totally plausible he makes his music using a wave editor; fred mcgriff made two or three guitar/sample/beat EPs almost entirely in goldwave, and a lot of people liked them a lot.

me not liking an artists music usually has nothing to do with the process taken to make it. Sure I respect an artist more if their music demands skilled instrumentation/programming, but on the most basic level it really doesn't matter (except for being unoriginal and sampling/stealing other peoples music heavily).

Burial's music although interesting at first really just fucking sucks in my opinion. Its not pleasing to hear vocals that sound like a whiny homeless cunt. And he really lacks any variety... each track essentially sounds like an attempt for a similar "feeling" but I get absolutely no contrasts from the album. From start to finish its just this cycled door knocking whiny vocal repetition... The whole thing just meshes together into this one dull sound, with the occasional annoying outburst or interesting beat rhythms same fucking door knock knock knock knock...

  kaini said:

  Awepittance said:

try tap tempo on top of a burial track and you will find it's very easy to find an integer BPM value, which imo would be almost impossible to achieve if one was constructing loops from scratch in sound forge.

 

it's easy to make a well-defined, multilayered loop with a kick at the start in a multitrack wave editor, and then perform a timestretch on that to make it fit a bpm

ok ok i just realized something very crucial to this debate. the last time i used soundforge was like over 5 years ago and i was never aware of it's ability to multitrack! so fuck guys i was misinformed on the subject big time. but can you see why i'd be weirded out if it didn't have multitrack ability and people were still claiming this?

and to respond to kaini, yes it is possible to time stretch it to a desired exact BPM length, but time stretching even just a little bit leaves noticeable artifiacts over the entire loops, Burials music sounds too clean to me, but . but yeah consider me conceding on this entire issue because YES it is VERY probable he uses a multitrack audio editor like Sound Forge to make his music, but would be ludicrous to assume (which i did think this was his claim) that he made everything in a single track audio window and used mix-paste to mix all his shit together

synopsis: I was talking out of my ass :embrassed:

located and acquired from internets.

contrary to what i thought, it's not a split, it's an actual collaboration.

(first listen) so far so good.

very hypnotic, night music with the playfulness of four tet.

Er Awepittance, Sound Forge does not have multitrack capabilities, it never has and never will because of Vegas. Which would be a fully acceptable bit of software to make full tracks with, but it's bad enough trying to mix two sounds together in Sound Forge let alone an entire piece of well structured music... so I'm with you on calling bullshit on that entirely.

yeah, this was alright, tiny bit too minimalist but nice enough

mayber soundforge is all the software he needs but he uses plenty of hardware?

  Pilcat said:

located and acquired from internets.

contrary to what i thought, it's not a split, it's an actual collaboration.

(first listen) so far so good.

very hypnotic, night music with the playfulness of four tet.

  rex sole said:

Er Awepittance, Sound Forge does not have multitrack capabilities, it never has and never will because of Vegas. Which would be a fully acceptable bit of software to make full tracks with, but it's bad enough trying to mix two sounds together in Sound Forge let alone an entire piece of well structured music... so I'm with you on calling bullshit on that entirely.

it doesnt?

i just went to the Sound Forge 9 website and it showed this screen shot

doesn't look like Vegas to me, but yeah i still stand by what i said that if Burial meant he uses a 2 channel linear non multitrack environment to make his music i still think its BS.

SoundForge 9 got the ability to edit interleaved files (6 channel wavs and whatnot) which is amazingly useful for tweaking surround sound assets, but it's nowhere near multitrack functionality although would make it slightly more feasable to pull off writing an entire track in it. Also this is a pretty recent update.

most of my music is all 1 track in audacity now. I just hardware.

  rex sole said:

SoundForge 9 got the ability to edit interleaved files (6 channel wavs and whatnot) which is amazingly useful for tweaking surround sound assets, but it's nowhere near multitrack functionality although would make it slightly more feasable to pull off writing an entire track in it. Also this is a pretty recent update.

oh wow so it can open and edit and save like 4 channel wave files that have been mixed down in something like Nuendo and Logic in surround mode?

autechre use soundforge

absolutely 100% believable that his shit is made all in a wav editor. i'm no burial obviously but i work in goldwave almost exclusively (the only other thing i use is soundforge for some effects). from my personal experience it is not in the LEAST far fetched to think that burial has cut and pasted all his music in a wav editor.

  Fred McGriff said:

absolutely 100% believable that his shit is made all in a wav editor. i'm no burial obviously but i work in goldwave almost exclusively (the only other thing i use is soundforge for some effects). from my personal experience it is not in the LEAST far fetched to think that burial has cut and pasted all his music in a wav editor.

agree. I still lust after the days when I made music on my PlayStation1, restricting yourself is a great way to be productive. I think after what hes revealed about his sample sources in interviews it only seems more likely that he's using a basic wave editor. At the least its certainly possible

also you can zoom in on the sample and cut microscopic pieces out of it to make it fit into any beat -- just one way to do it without time stretching.