plaid Why no release of old material from WARP?

mdg, I know you scout over these pages, could you perhaps throw some light over all these marvellous tracks of their past. Will they ever see the light of day, in glorious BoC technicolor? Or will they remain drifting around cyberspace like lost relics?

Regards,

Steve.

You might as well take up praying again. The effect is awfully similar.

I know where you are coming from, but I have asked a genuine question and it would be cool to have some sort of answer. Nothing more, nothing less.

  On 4/13/2012 at 9:13 PM, beerwolf said:

I know where you are coming from, but I have asked a genuine question and it would be cool to have some sort of answer. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://bocpages.org/wiki/Old_Tunes_saga

  Quote

Now the intention is still to get round to scheduling a release of these tunes and other rare

comps

ther ya go

i hate to say it but any old releases will most likely outshine a new release if it's anything like campfire

i am of late engorged in old tunes #1 & 2 and find it a lot more appealing than campfire

progress in this case is not better but worse IMHO

  On 4/14/2012 at 4:43 PM, yikes said:

i am of late engorged in old tunes

if engorgement persists longer than 8 hrs, see a doctor

  On 4/5/2012 at 5:04 PM, Joyrex said:

And I agree that a physical release would be a risky venture for WARP to put money into, but there's no reason a digital release wouldn't pay dividends.

I dunno, FSOL's From the Archives series sold pretty well - the first three got something in the region of 15,000 sales (digital + physical combined) in the first 12 months, and given that they killed off 2/3 of their fanbase with the Amorphous stuff, and that the Archive releases received some criticism, and they self-released them and did fuck all promotion, I'd say it's probably a good example of how people will buy this kind of thing, especially if they're gagging for a new album.

any sort of old tunes comp would sell like crazy. there's so much demand for ANYTHING by boc. but i doubt it will be happening any time soon. 2013 is not that far away, tho~

I'd mostly be interested in hearing things that are tracks that just didn't "make the cut" for albums. A B-sides album, if you will. Stuff like Spiro, XYZ, alternate versions of tracks (ATP version of Julie and Candy). That'd be beautiful.

absolutely, I can live with the mediocre quality of the old tunes if necessary, but a full studio (or even soundboard) recording of their live unreleased tracks would be fantastic. I think some of those cuts are better than album cuts, and seemed to come during one of their peaks of creativity (around the time of IABPOITC to Geogaddi). The world is really missing out. It's like what if we never got to hear Ae's Untilted live sets in high quality? Those are some of the best output of the band. I think it's the same case re: the live BoC tracks.

I would not be ok with waiting 7 years for stuff that is even older. I would love some controversial Portishead - Third that takes their world further and confuses the fans as they are so used to the old stuff by now.

  On 4/14/2012 at 6:27 PM, purlieu said:

  On 4/5/2012 at 5:04 PM, Joyrex said:

And I agree that a physical release would be a risky venture for WARP to put money into, but there's no reason a digital release wouldn't pay dividends.

I dunno, FSOL's From the Archives series sold pretty well - the first three got something in the region of 15,000 sales (digital + physical combined) in the first 12 months, and given that they killed off 2/3 of their fanbase with the Amorphous stuff, and that the Archive releases received some criticism, and they self-released them and did fuck all promotion, I'd say it's probably a good example of how people will buy this kind of thing, especially if they're gagging for a new album.

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

  On 4/14/2012 at 7:25 PM, kinski said:

any sort of old tunes comp would sell like crazy. there's so much demand for ANYTHING by boc. but i doubt it will be happening any time soon. 2013 is not that far away, tho~

Again, I'm not sure if the demand is there like we might think it is - only a small subset of BoC fans even know about the OT or even the pre-Twoism stuff.

  On 4/15/2012 at 2:07 AM, Xyrofen said:

I'd mostly be interested in hearing things that are tracks that just didn't "make the cut" for albums. A B-sides album, if you will. Stuff like Spiro, XYZ, alternate versions of tracks (ATP version of Julie and Candy). That'd be beautiful.

That would be really neat - I think stuff that wasn't quite good enough for an album release would be even better than most of the OT stuff anyways, barring the OT stuff that did make it's way to a release eventually.

  On 4/15/2012 at 3:13 AM, lumpenprol said:

absolutely, I can live with the mediocre quality of the old tunes if necessary, but a full studio (or even soundboard) recording of their live unreleased tracks would be fantastic. I think some of those cuts are better than album cuts, and seemed to come during one of their peaks of creativity (around the time of IABPOITC to Geogaddi). The world is really missing out. It's like what if we never got to hear Ae's Untilted live sets in high quality? Those are some of the best output of the band. I think it's the same case re: the live BoC tracks.

Yeah, a live CD of ATP would be fantastic, considering how much unreleased material they played, as well as the phenomenal quality of it - the Lighthouse gig was OK, but not as good as ATP IMO.

Each of their 3 live shows have a killer tune I wish would be properly released:

Last track at Warp10

Lighthouse track 3

ATP track 7

there's no chance xyz will ever get properly released as it's got a massive fuck off sample in the middle of it.

Wow, didn't know that.

  On 4/16/2012 at 10:50 PM, Colani said:

there's no chance xyz will ever get properly released as it's got a massive fuck off sample in the middle of it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIuDwESKjZc

Nor did I! really neat to know that now.

  On 4/16/2012 at 10:50 PM, Colani said:

there's no chance xyz will ever get properly released as it's got a massive fuck off sample in the middle of it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIuDwESKjZc

- It all makes sense now!!!!!!

  On 4/16/2012 at 10:50 PM, Colani said:

there's no chance xyz will ever get properly released as it's got a massive fuck off sample in the middle of it.

 

Nice spotting

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

Had, certainly (top 20 singles), but after six years of nothing but psych rock things went pretty quiet on the fanbase front. They certainly don't have the Pitchfork reading hipster interest that BoC do, either.

I suppose all I mean is, collections of unheard stuff tend to appeal to geeky fanboys, and if a band whose fan forum is this active can sell many, many thousands of CDs without a even the vaguest acknowledgement in the press, I'm sure a label like Warp can afford to knock up a thousand or two discs for you crazy bunch here. I'm not saying it'll compete with Geogaddi in sales, but I can't believe they'd lose money on doing a limited edition physical release.

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

 

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

hi Mike

  On 4/17/2012 at 5:09 AM, apriorion said:

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

I submit the following counter argument -

FSOL fans are probably in their 30s and 40s now, and less likely to have a Facebook account. BoC fans are probably made up of a large portion of Pitchfork readers that are younger and very likely to have Facebook accounts.

Facebook is also renowned for swathes of users that click on 'Like' for just about anything, regardless of whether they actually like it or not.

  On 4/17/2012 at 10:27 AM, oscillik said:

  On 4/17/2012 at 5:09 AM, apriorion said:

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

 

I submit the following counter argument -

 

FSOL fans are probably in their 30s and 40s now, and less likely to have a Facebook account. BoC fans are probably made up of a large portion of Pitchfork readers that are younger and very likely to have Facebook accounts.

 

Facebook is also renowned for swathes of users that click on 'Like' for just about anything, regardless of whether they actually like it or not.

Autobiographical moment: I actually fucking hate facebook. I can't believe I'm actually defending its usefulness for anything. Oh well.

I'll respond to your second point first: that facebook users would click on just about anything should open the possibility that FSOL would have more "likes"--if FSOL were really some big deal at some point, then lots of users would say "Oh yeah, I heard them once. They made that song about explosives or something" and then click "like". But they only have 15k likes. I get your point about the younger Pitchfork crowd, but just for kicks I went to see what they wrote about FSOL over there, and they actually gave "The Isness" 8.0, and claimed that it "actually works". So there's that, too.

The important point was the twofold claim that (a) FSOL has (present tense) a bigger fanbase than BoC has (present tense), and (b) that FSOL has a bigger fanbase than BoC ever will have. I was tempted to believe that, but I wonder what sort of empirical evidence we could gather to falsify or verify it. I still think the Facebook likes thing isn't a terrible guide: after all, bands like Led Zepplin have 5 million likes, but their target audience is for people in who are now in their fifties. Now, you might object that the comparison is unfair, since LZ is a much bigger deal than both BoC and FSOL, but I guess I'm focused mostly on claim (b): if FSOL has a bigger fanbase than BoC will ever have, we should have expected to see that data carry over to the facebook crowds. But we don't. Perhaps we need a new claim: © FSOL had (in their heyday) a bigger fanbase than BoC will ever have. Now, that sounds worth investigating, but I don't see a straightforward way to test this--it sounds unfalsifiable. Maybe we could look at total album sales. I wouldn't know where to find that, though. I am genuinely curious.

  On 4/17/2012 at 5:09 AM, apriorion said:

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

Disclaimer: I cannot stand Facebook, and I assure you in none of my reasoning did I even consider how many 'likes' either band has, nor to use it as a barometer for their respective popularity. I was basing my assumption on the fact that FSOL has been on closer to mainstream labels versus BoC, and thus has probably seen a wider distribution of their releases.

  On 4/17/2012 at 10:27 AM, oscillik said:

  On 4/17/2012 at 5:09 AM, apriorion said:

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

 

I submit the following counter argument -

 

FSOL fans are probably in their 30s and 40s now, and less likely to have a Facebook account. BoC fans are probably made up of a large portion of Pitchfork readers that are younger and very likely to have Facebook accounts.

 

Facebook is also renowned for swathes of users that click on 'Like' for just about anything, regardless of whether they actually like it or not.

Agreed - God, I'm agreeing with Oscillik!

  On 4/17/2012 at 3:58 PM, apriorion said:

  On 4/17/2012 at 10:27 AM, oscillik said:

  On 4/17/2012 at 5:09 AM, apriorion said:

  On 4/16/2012 at 9:39 PM, Joyrex said:

I daresay FSOL had (and probably has) a much larger fanbase than BoC does or probably will. They're more 'mainstream' than BoC due to their tenure and being released on major labels, whereas BoC has only been on SKAM and WARP (not counting international releases, and Matador was pretty small).

 

 

I'm not saying that facebook "likes" are all that matter from the point of view of fanbase, but it's not a bad barometer, either. Given that you said that FSOL probably still has (present tense) a larger fanbase than BoC does now, and that the FSOL fanbase is larger than one BoC ever will have, I submit the following rejoinder. FSOL facebook fanpage: 15k likes. BoC facebook fanpage: 247k likes. Therefore, your claim seems false.

 

I submit the following counter argument -

 

FSOL fans are probably in their 30s and 40s now, and less likely to have a Facebook account. BoC fans are probably made up of a large portion of Pitchfork readers that are younger and very likely to have Facebook accounts.

 

Facebook is also renowned for swathes of users that click on 'Like' for just about anything, regardless of whether they actually like it or not.

 

Autobiographical moment: I actually fucking hate facebook. I can't believe I'm actually defending its usefulness for anything. Oh well.

 

I'll respond to your second point first: that facebook users would click on just about anything should open the possibility that FSOL would have more "likes"--if FSOL were really some big deal at some point, then lots of users would say "Oh yeah, I heard them once. They made that song about explosives or something" and then click "like". But they only have 15k likes. I get your point about the younger Pitchfork crowd, but just for kicks I went to see what they wrote about FSOL over there, and they actually gave "The Isness" 8.0, and claimed that it "actually works". So there's that, too.

 

The important point was the twofold claim that (a) FSOL has (present tense) a bigger fanbase than BoC has (present tense), and (b) that FSOL has a bigger fanbase than BoC ever will have. I was tempted to believe that, but I wonder what sort of empirical evidence we could gather to falsify or verify it. I still think the Facebook likes thing isn't a terrible guide: after all, bands like Led Zepplin have 5 million likes, but their target audience is for people in who are now in their fifties. Now, you might object that the comparison is unfair, since LZ is a much bigger deal than both BoC and FSOL, but I guess I'm focused mostly on claim (b): if FSOL has a bigger fanbase than BoC will ever have, we should have expected to see that data carry over to the facebook crowds. But we don't. Perhaps we need a new claim: © FSOL had (in their heyday) a bigger fanbase than BoC will ever have. Now, that sounds worth investigating, but I don't see a straightforward way to test this--it sounds unfalsifiable. Maybe we could look at total album sales. I wouldn't know where to find that, though. I am genuinely curious.

Well, at least we agree that we cannot stand Facebook! It would be interesting to see if there is any data on FSOL album sales vs. BoC album sales (pressings too might be considered, as that would be a professional barometer of a label's knowledge that a release will have the consumer response to warrant a higher pressing count due to the larger fanbase).

FSOL having a larger fanbase than BOC? Maybe in the UK alone.