is horse meat readily available in your country?

  On 2/11/2013 at 10:05 PM, rixxx said:

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 8:59 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 6:33 PM, rixxx said:

Hopefully people will start to realise if you want to eat meat than you've pay the price. We never used to eat meat every main meal and we certainly didn't evolve to do so.

that's a highly politicized argument and one that seems tinged with more than a smidge of bias.

 

You state that "if you want to eat meat than you've pay the price", which I interpret as "if you eat meat at all, then you've to pay the price"

 

then you go on to say that we didn't evolve to eat meat, yet the human body does require protein found only in meats, especially with expectant mothers and their child. At least that's as I understand it. I could be wrong, and probably am on that specific point.

 

but what you just said is still clearly a biased opinion.

We did evolve to eat meat but not as much meat as eat currently eat.

 

Some people have meat in their lunch and for dinner everyday, what Im saying is that you don't need to eat meat seven days a week. During the war meat was a treat that you had say, for sunday roast and the left overs were used to create a stew and to make a stock. We don't have this same attitude to meat- many people buy these cheap ready meal with no conscious of what goes on in the meat industry.

 

I get annoyed when people are angry because its horse meat and say 'it's cruel' etc etc when they would happily buy beef or value chicken that has had an atrocious life so that they can buy it. People should look into buying less meat but of better quality.

 

(because the quote system is fucked, i'll do it this way)

 

"We did evolve to eat meat but not as much meat as eat currently eat.

Some people have meat in their lunch and for dinner everyday, what Im saying is that you don't need to eat meat seven days a week. During the war meat was a treat that you had say, for sunday roast and the left overs were used to create a stew and to make a stock. We don't have this same attitude to meat- many people buy these cheap ready meal with no conscious of what goes on in the meat industry."

Totally agree here, it's certainly not necessary to eat meat in the massive quantities that some people clearly do. Regarding war-time eating habits, I wonder how much of those habits would be down to lack of availability / cost? But again, I agree with you that most people eat things without a thought as to where it came from, or what was involved. But then that's no different from the general attitude towards clothing / gadgets / etc.

"I get annoyed when people are angry because its horse meat and say 'it's cruel' etc etc when they would happily buy beef or value chicken that has had an atrocious life so that they can buy it. People should look into buying less meat but of better quality."

This I can definitely get behind, as it is certainly hypocritical of these people to cry cruelty in this circumstance, but be apathetic in all others. At least if you don't give a shit about any of it, there's consistency.

Thanks for clarifying, and setting me correct here on my clearly egregiously wrong interpretation, and I apologise for being a bit of a prick (well, more than quite a bit of one)

no worries, my lack of grammar was appalling.

Horse meat in the pigs: Warning, horse dicks

 

 

Edited February 11, 2013 by chassis

It seems to have been only found in the poorest quality meals. You're surely going to expect all sorts of rubbish chucked in. Just look at sausages. The cheaper you go the less % meat it contains.

Maybe the people that buy that sort of thing were just following The Butterfield Diet Plan and getting their weekly recommended amount of mystery meat?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtF3_ybJJ50

  On 2/12/2013 at 12:15 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 10:10 PM, LimpyLoo said:

2) If you eat meat then you don't get to be being outraged at the inhumane treatment of animals you don't like the taste of

 

I don't understand this statement at all. I eat meat, I don't feel nourished without it, but I'm against inhumane treatment of animals (nevermind whether I like the taste of them or not).

since when are animals in slaughter houses treated humanely?

  On 2/12/2013 at 1:16 AM, soundwave said:

 

 

  On 2/12/2013 at 12:15 AM, usagi said:

 

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 10:10 PM, LimpyLoo said:

2) If you eat meat then you don't get to be being outraged at the inhumane treatment of animals you don't like the taste of

I don't understand this statement at all. I eat meat, I don't feel nourished without it, but I'm against inhumane treatment of animals (nevermind whether I like the taste of them or not).

 

 

since when are animals in slaughter houses treated humanely?

 

 

just because the animals he buys-->eats are treated inhumanely doesn't mean that he can't support the treatment of animals in a humane fashion. i suppose it's words versus actions. here's a similar example: i support weaning the united states off oil through the use of alternative energy, but i still fill up on gas every week.

  On 2/11/2013 at 3:59 PM, joshuatx said:

Whoa China's been cranking out the horse meat - pretty sure the U.S. was #1

 

I understand people who feel upset for eating an animal smarter and more personable than a cow, but then again pigs are quite intelligent and that doesn't stop people from eating pork. I really wish meat consumption was just more efficient. It's sick that millions of animals, mostly cats and dogs but also thousands of horses, are severely mistreated and neglected by people who insist on having pets, or even worse, breed them purely for quick money. There are hundreds of cases in Texas alone of people being fined and even arrested for neglecting horses. It sounds cruel, but I dunno...some loosened ideas about what's taboo to eat could make the deaths of so many animals like that much less of a waste and tragedy.

 

I think everyone knows what a horse in fear looks and sounds like but how many people can paint a mental picture of a cow or pig in fear? I think being able to clearly imagine a creature in fear makes it easy to empathize with.

 

I watched a slaughter raw slaughterhouse footage reel on public access when i was maybe 10 years old and it brewed in my mind for years and every now and then I would be eating bacon and imagine the pig being thrown alive into a vat of boiling water like in the video and it would ruin my meal. eventually I stopped eating things that I couldn't punch to death without breaking my hand. i would stomp a chicken or fish to death no problem so i'll eat that without a second thought

  On 2/12/2013 at 1:23 AM, Hoodie said:

 

  On 2/12/2013 at 1:16 AM, soundwave said:

 

  On 2/12/2013 at 12:15 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 10:10 PM, LimpyLoo said:

2) If you eat meat then you don't get to be being outraged at the inhumane treatment of animals you don't like the taste of

I don't understand this statement at all. I eat meat, I don't feel nourished without it, but I'm against inhumane treatment of animals (nevermind whether I like the taste of them or not).

 

since when are animals in slaughter houses treated humanely?

 

just because the animals he buys-->eats are treated inhumanely doesn't mean that he can't support the treatment of animals in a humane fashion. i suppose it's words versus actions. here's a similar example: i support weaning the united states off oil through the use of alternative energy, but i still fill up on gas every week.

maybe you should adopt a greener mode of transport

 

ANIMAL MISTREATMENT!

 

the man be enslaving the horse for his own ends

 

fucking charlton heston, the bastard.

  On 2/12/2013 at 1:16 AM, soundwave said:

 

  On 2/12/2013 at 12:15 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/11/2013 at 10:10 PM, LimpyLoo said:

2) If you eat meat then you don't get to be being outraged at the inhumane treatment of animals you don't like the taste of

 

I don't understand this statement at all. I eat meat, I don't feel nourished without it, but I'm against inhumane treatment of animals (nevermind whether I like the taste of them or not).

since when are animals in slaughter houses treated humanely?

 

Yeah. No-one who's ever watched Meet Your Meat or done10 minutes worth of rigorous research would try to take that stance.

 

It's just...ill-informed.

 

 

No offense intended, really.

Edited February 12, 2013 by LimpyLoo

I personally prefer the taste of extra tortured meat over humanely treated meat. I think the fear and pain gives it a certain je ne sais quoi that free range meat doesn't have. It's sad to think about but fuck it, I'm hungry and I want the best tasting meat. Also don't eat horses because that's just fucking nasty.

  On 2/12/2013 at 1:56 AM, usagi said:

Limpy, I think your passion about the issue may be clouding your reasoning a little. you're equating being a meat-eater with endorsing bad present-day farming practices, which isn't a necessary relationship at all. say you lived in a time 10 centuries ago in an agricultural civilisation where animals weren't crammed into tiny spaces and treated like factory assembly objects instead of living creatures - would it still be inhumane to eat meat?

 

I can understand people's personal convictions on this issue (especially if you saw some slaughterhouse footage) but you should probably acknowledge that not everyone has the same convictions as you.

 

My passion about the issue comes from the extensive research I've done.

 

The bottom line is, it doesn't really matter if you say you are compassionate if your actions don't support it. If you go to your local grocery store and buy a pound of beef, or some chicken or whatever, that animal went through hell. If you buy "organic" then you should probably look into the legal definition of "organic." If you buy "open range" then (depending on what country you live in) that often simply means that the animal was allowed to roam free outdoors for at minimum1hour/day.

 

If you go to a farm and make sure that the animal suffered a non-violent death then that's one thing. But if you eat meat at fast food restaurants (McDonald's, Chinese food, etc) more than zero times a year then you simply can't make any claim about having compassion for animals.

I guess the 1000 hours of volunteer work at a wildlife rehabilitation facility mean nothing because I ate a burger once.

 

That turkey sandwich I ate totally negates any compassionate feelings I might have had when we were treating infected propeller wounds on manatees, lol

 

The next time my cat follows me around the house, I'm going to yell at him to run away, for I am a monster, and I thirst for blood.

 

Thanks for the moral absolutism, Limpster.

Edited February 12, 2013 by baph

  On 2/12/2013 at 2:26 AM, baph said:

I guess the 1000 hours of volunteer work at a wildlife rehabilitation facility mean nothing because I ate a burger once.

 

That turkey sandwich I ate totally negates any compassionate feelings I might have had when we were treating infected propeller wounds on manatees, lol

 

Thanks for the moral absolutism, Limpster.

 

Moral Absolutism?

 

 

Either you think something is wrong or you don't. That burger has the result of an animal being forced to live a short painful miserable life. Either you're okay with that or you're not.

 

This is where your burger came from:

 

 

If you are okay with that, then in what possible universe is eating a burger consistent with being compassionate towards animals?

Seriously.

 

Some things are black and white. If I think slavery is wrong does that make me a moral absolutist?

 

 

(I am not usually vocal about these issues, but when people make claims such as the ones being made in this thread...)

Edited February 12, 2013 by LimpyLoo

  On 2/12/2013 at 2:41 AM, usagi said:

yeah, that's a bit too absolute to make sense to me. I definitely agree that actions are more important than just a bunch of words though, we're on the same page there. I'm just apathetic about it given that my personal dissent won't make a dent in the big machine that is the market, so giving up on the nutritional value of meat for no real change isn't justified. but I'll still support a push for humane farming initiatives.

  On 2/12/2013 at 2:41 AM, usagi said:

yeah, that's a bit too absolute to make sense to me. I definitely agree that actions are more important than just a bunch of words though, we're on the same page there. I'm just apathetic about it given that my personal dissent won't make a dent in the big machine that is the market, so giving up on the nutritional value of meat for no real change isn't justified. but I'll still support a push for humane farming initiatives.

 

That's fair enough. I just have an allergic reaction when I see animal-rights matters being downplayed or misrepresented.

Do you really think I haven't seen slaughterhouse videos? I don't condone animal cruelty. I have actively tried to work against it. I'm not just saying that. I care about it deeply. I try to limit my meat intake and I try to source the meat from local, humane sources. I also tried to go vegan for a year and came out of it pretty fucking sick and anemic and I've never felt worse in my entire life.

 

If you want to talk about compassion, get off your ass and do something instead of being a typical vegan twat and thinking that your diet is the ultimate expression of enlightenment. Go clean up after an oil spill, airlift an injured pilot whale, clear people off the high tide wrack zone so the piping plovers can get a bite to eat, nurse an injured kitten back to health, sink a Japanese whaler, or just realize that compassion can go beyond diet. Maybe you do those things, that's cool (except the whaler one, FBI, please don't put me on a watch list)

 

If you aren't backing up your passive refusal to eat meat with active corrective force, how can you claim to be compassionate? (see, it's so easy to spout BS like this in order to elevate one's position!)

 

edit: I'd love to push for ethical/humane farming, and we're on the same page there, just please stop and get off the vegan high horse* and realize that compassion can be demonstrated in different ways

 

 

*lol, I totally didn't mean to do that

Edited February 12, 2013 by baph

And limpy, so help me, if you're one of those people who turn out to be anti "meat" pescatarians I am going to lecture you so hard right now about sustainability

 

(just kidding (I'm not kidding (I know you're probably not a pescatarian, lol (goddammit though, if you are....)))

 

Seriously though, pescatarians need to fuck right off. Goddamn it.

 

 

edit 398: I would totally love some nerve-ending free, low ecological footprint, non sentient vat grown meat. I would eat the shit out of that, and then shit that shit out of me, happily. WHO IS WITH ME?

Edited February 12, 2013 by baph

  On 2/12/2013 at 3:03 AM, baph said:

Do you really think I haven't seen slaughterhouse videos? I don't condone animal cruelty. I have actively tried to work against it. I'm not just saying that. I care about it deeply. I try to limit my meat intake and I try to source the meat from local, humane sources. I also tried to go vegan for a year and came out of it pretty fucking sick and anemic and I've never felt worse in my entire life.

 

If you want to talk about compassion, get off your ass and do something instead of being a typical vegan twat and thinking that your diet is the ultimate expression of enlightenment. Go clean up after an oil spill, airlift an injured pilot whale, clear people off the high tide wrack zone so the piping plovers can get a bite to eat, nurse an injured kitten back to health, sink a Japanese whaler, or just realize that compassion can go beyond diet.

 

If you aren't backing up your passive refusal to eat meat with active corrective force, how can you claim to be compassionate? (see, it's so easy to spout BS like this in order to elevate one's position!)

 

Whoa whoa no need for name-calling.

 

 

First off, I was just saying that I don't think eating a burger is consistent with a compassionate lifestyle.

 

I'm not trying to elevate my position. I'm not pretending to be anything that I'm not.

 

 

I'm totally happy if someone else has different values than me on the matter. Really. I understand why people eat meat. It's a difficult issue. Our bodies want it. Anemia sucks.

 

 

Baph, man, please take it easy on me. I wasn't attacking your character. I was just addressing what I perceived as an inconsistency in this thread.

It's ok, man, I'm not angry. I do care too, is all. I can understand the meat is murder sentiment, because it is, but I am apparently evolved to eat murdered things. I don't like it, either. Shit's fucked up and bullshit.

 

Didn't mean for any name calling to be taken seriously (unless you're a pescatarian, lol).

Edited February 12, 2013 by baph

  On 2/12/2013 at 3:42 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/12/2013 at 3:03 AM, baph said:

I also tried to go vegan for a year and came out of it pretty fucking sick and anemic and I've never felt worse in my entire life.

this is my main concern with vego diets. I hear you can make up for lost iron but you have to eat a ridiculous amount of <some veg, can't remember> to do it. I don't think there really is anything as iron-rich as red meat.

 

Also vegan diets are typically extremely high in sodium leading to heart disease and other problems.

 

And the incidence of degenerative brain diseases are higher among vegans and vegetarians due to certain missing amino acids and essential proteins not found in vegan foods. Sure you can supplement, but there are trace amino acids and other nutrients that might be very hard to micro dose.

Edited February 12, 2013 by StephenG

You got a source with some numbers for that last statement, SG? I'd like to know more about it but don't really wanna get my info direct from a forum debate.

 

As for the first statement (re: sodium), I think it's important to remember that everyone is pretty likely to get too much sodium, meat-diet or not. Meat tastes better with salt, just like broccoli.

Edited February 12, 2013 by luke viia

Yeah I mean, I am constantly struggling with anemia. Sometimes, on days when I haven't eaten properly, when I leave my apartment I can smell the steak from the grill joint next door and my body just craves it.

 

We have evolved in such a way as to make veganism a difficult, high-maintenance thing. Pretty much exactly like that Australian toilet on the Simpsons that American engineers had rigged up to flush counter-clockwise.

this is why we need our non-sentient vat grown meat righthefucknow

and don't try to repackage some space whale as miracle science meat like in that one Torchwood episode

science, get off your ass for once, dammit

Edited February 12, 2013 by baph