How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:36 AM, compson said:

Also something to note is that there are very few vocal in the Muslim community who stand up against the intolerance (in Europe and America). At least that I know of.

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very good point.

I think it'd be hilarious if compson started a thread about people's favorite quotes from wikipedia! :D

Also, back on the original topic: I still think Ayaan H A has some decent points about the whole issue. And I don't quite get why these are largely ignored.

Final attempt - ill let it go after this one, honestly:

And the Muslim Brotherhood having talks with Hitler and shit... as far as I know, even Fox News doesn't give this coverage. Like hello... Hitler and Muslim Brotherhood leader talking in 1941... seems like a easy way to sell the "war on terror"

But I don't watch Fox News so maybe they often discuss this.

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:55 AM, lumpenprol said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:36 AM, compson said:

Also something to note is that there are very few vocal in the Muslim community who stand up against the intolerance (in Europe and America). At least that I know of.

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very good point.

 

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/muslims-against-islamists-hasan-mahmud

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/muslims-speak-up-and-against-radical-islamists/2011/03/29/AF5Mz8jG_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailesman/2012/02/29/american-muslims-speak-out-against-radical-islam-support-nypd/

That was a 10 second google search.

  On 4/10/2013 at 9:09 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:55 AM, lumpenprol said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:36 AM, compson said:

Also something to note is that there are very few vocal in the Muslim community who stand up against the intolerance (in Europe and America). At least that I know of.

.

 

very good point.

 

 

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/muslims-against-islamists-hasan-mahmud

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/muslims-speak-up-and-against-radical-islamists/2011/03/29/AF5Mz8jG_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailesman/2012/02/29/american-muslims-speak-out-against-radical-islam-support-nypd/

 

That was a 10 second google search.

 

No shit... I said very few, which is relative to a billion people about. Just because google can search something in 10 seconds doesn't negate there being a relative lack of pro-moderate muslim protests. Though most religions are probably guilty of being cowards in this way. But it would be wise for Muslim moderates to do more stuff like this and to try and help the people who are forced to live under Sharia Law.

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More importantly, the demonstration is a loud declaration of solidarity by American Muslims with those who are working to fight against the spread of radical Islam in the West and the threat it poses to Western democracy.

 

spread of radical Islam in the west?

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:06 AM, goDel said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 7:35 AM, LimpyLoo said:

. ...

 

I'm afraid this is a bit of a longwinded story, but my first question when I hear about a propaganda claim, is how would you prove a thing like that? Also, the claim in itself is a crude generalisation of itself as well, right?

 

Well first let me say that I don't think there is much (if any) grand, conspiratorial-type propaganda among news outlets (outside of totalitarian countries, of course). Rather I think it's a matter of (like I said before) filtering and framing, a sort of mundane propaganda without the shady intent. (Like when you fill out your OKCupid profile you might leave out some unsavory details about yourself but it's certainly not this big conspiracy to set up this nice girl with some horrible monster of a person).

oh god i'm so tired i need to go to bed I'll just let these two links finish my post for me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivation_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:57 AM, goDel said:

I think it'd be hilarious if compson started a thread about people's favorite quotes from wikipedia! :D

 

Also, back on the original topic: I still think Ayaan H A has some decent points about the whole issue. And I don't quite get why these are largely ignored.

 

Final attempt - ill let it go after this one, honestly:

here's an interesting "expose" of her...has some seemingly salient points, some less so:

http://www.infocusnews.net/index.php/en/894-july-07-news-july07/commentary-commentary/1200-exposed-ayaan-hirsi-ali

Even if she was the most horrible person in the history of the universe...either what she's saying is true or it's not, her character doesn't factor into the validity of her points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsDt5Ub5JLM

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What is Southern California InFocus?
Southern California InFocus is the largest Muslim newspaper in California that comes out by the third of each month.

 

it begins...

  On 4/10/2013 at 9:32 AM, lumpenprol said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:57 AM, goDel said:

I think it'd be hilarious if compson started a thread about people's favorite quotes from wikipedia! :D

 

Also, back on the original topic: I still think Ayaan H A has some decent points about the whole issue. And I don't quite get why these are largely ignored.

 

Final attempt - ill let it go after this one, honestly:

here's an interesting "expose" of her...has some seemingly salient points, some less so:

 

http://www.infocusnews.net/index.php/en/894-july-07-news-july07/commentary-commentary/1200-exposed-ayaan-hirsi-ali

 

I know the story. It was laid out broadly in the media here in Holland. The point is she fled a situation which was, for her, a reason to make up stories (she wouldn't be excepted in the Netherlands otherwise, I can tell you that much).

And that film she made with Theo van Gogh, Submission, says it all really. I'm not a woman, but I think I can understand why I would run away from situations like that - even though it's not as life-threatening as a war (which is debatable as well, btw).

So, like Limpy says, it's about the content of her arguments, not her persona.

Obviously, it says much about the article you linked to that it starts with ad hominem attacks. And the other arguments seem a lot weaker, if you ask me. The funny thing is that Ayaan makes a case about violence against women specifically in the Islamic culture. And she has every right to. Violence against women is part of any culture, and the question should be to what extent violence against women in the Islamic culture gets the attention it deserves. Ayaan's point is clear. The woman writing the critique sidesteps this by making a distinction between religion and culture (and individual people). Which, imo, is effectively saying there is no issue. I'd argue that a distinction between religion and culture is a fabricated one. Especially in nations where the line between religion and politics is hardly visible. So, to play the ball back, at this point I question the person behind the criticisms on Ayaan more than Ayaan.

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Unfortunately, Hirsi Ali is simply another in the line of those who have jumped on the opportunistic Islamophobic bandwagon, capitalizing on the "Islam-bashing" industry.

 

Her past may include certain tragedies, but the problems she describes in her book, "Infidel," are to blamed on humans and their actions, not on Islam.

 

In reviewing her latest book, Ian Buruma has noted, "I’m not convinced that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s absolutist view of a perfectly enlightened West at war with the demonic world of Islam offers the best perspective from which to get this [reform] done

 

Abiya Ahmed holds a Bachelor’s in Mass Communication with a concentration in Print Journalism. She currently works as Media Relations Coordinator of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, San Francisco Bay Area (CAIR-SFBA).

 

So essentially, all problems with Islam are to be blamed onto the people, not the indoctrination or oppression of islamic fascism? Or am I moving the goal posts?

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Van Gogh was killed by a Muslim fanatic in 2004 because of the film.

islamofascists i wanna jerk off dawkins and hitchens and shout at women wearing burkas that theyre oppressed and also shouldnt be allowed to wear waht they want becuase of oppression

  On 4/10/2013 at 11:29 AM, compson said:

 

http:// www.youtube.com/ watch?v=aGtQvGGY4S4

 

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Van Gogh was killed by a Muslim fanatic in 2004 because of the film.

 

i hate muslims i dont know any in real life but i serious hatte the ideology look this guy agrees with me: youtube video of some fuck having a go at islamofascists

this guy is mah hero xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cum kiss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8UEVoSJmfs&NR=1&feature=endscreen

Thoughts on this argument? Given the recent protests in Iran and the military coup false revolution of 1979

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Following the highly controversial 2009 Iranian presidential elections, massive protests erupted across Iran. The Iranian government suppressed the protests and stopped the mass demonstrations in 2009, with only very minor flare-ups in 2010. However, not many of the protesters' demands were met.
Then, the Arab Spring spread across the Middle East and North Africa. After the ousting of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia on 14 January 2011, millions of people began demonstrating across the region in a broad movement aimed at various issues such as their standards of living or influencing significant reforms, with varying degrees of success. With the successful ousting of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on 11 February 2011 following that of President Ben Ali of Tunisia, renewed protests began in Iran.

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This date was chosen for protests to coincide with 25 Bahman, the 11th month of the Persian calendar,^[17] ,^[17] and was publicized as "The Day of Rage".[11

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011-2013_Iranian_protests

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The 1979 Iranian Revolution, which ousted the pro-American Shah and replaced him with the anti-American Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini, surprised the United States government, its State Department and intelligence services, which "consistently underestimated the magnitude and long-term implications of this unrest".^%5B35%5D Six months before the revolution culminated, the CIA had produced a report, stating that "Persia is not in a revolutionary or even a "prerevolutionary" situation"^%5B36%5D

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Although many hoped the revolution would bring freedom of speech and press, this was not to be. In defending forced closing of opposition newspapers and attacks on opposition protesters by club-wielding vigilantes, Khomeini explained, 'The club of the pen and the club of the tongue is the worst of clubs, whose corruption is a 100 times greater than other clubs.'^[137]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/world/meast/iran-nuclear/?hpt=hp_t2

Iran marks 'National Nuclear Day' with a new uranium-processing site

edit: lol haven't seen this one yet, cheers richie

have to post this video before I go to sleep.

one of the most uniquely chilling/horrifying things ive seen in some time , released yesterday

[Warning: Graphic violence] On Oct. 28, 2012, while FRONTLINE's Olly Lambert was filming an interview with a Syrian rebel leader in the village of al-Bara, a regime airstrike hit barely 300 meters from where he was standing. He kept the cameras rolling, spending the next hour documenting the strike's impact. This film, narrated by Lambert, is a rare, immersive portrait of the immediate aftermath of Syrian government air strikes on civilian populations.

Lambert is the first Western filmmaker to spend an extended period living on both sides of Syria's war - and to document, on camera, the realities of everyday life for rebels, government soldiers and the civilians who support them. Lambert's film, Syria Behind the Lines, airs Tuesday April 10 on PBS. Check local listings here: http://to.pbs.org/gqVBaM

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The Syrian civil war^[60] is an ongoing armed conflict in Syria between forces loyal to the Syrian Ba'ath Party government and those seeking to oust it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22097864

Nice to see Sheik Abdullah Bin Nasser Al Thani isn't above playing the Islamophobia/race/victim card, despite being a billionaire member of the Qatari royal family. Of course all jocks are inherently racist, so he may have a point. And before Lain C pipes up, you might want to examine your own conscience. Have you any idea how many brown people die each year to support the gin industry? No, I didn't think so.

This may surprise you (it certainly surprises me) but I haven't had an alcoholic drink for more than a month. Why? Well, read the thread and draw your own conclusions.

seriously though, compson, you really do believe that the war in syria is a civil war? i'm not saying that the syrian army doesn't have blood on their hands, but they were pretty much repressing a foreign agression by "al qaeda" fighters, who were financed by saudi arabia and qatar to overthrow the, as far as i know, legitimate regime of Assad. i'm sorry to say so, but the covering of the syrian war by the western media is basically propaganda. not that i think that most journalists purposely lie about it, as far as i know they mostly repeat the info given by the syrian observatory for human rights, without invertigating.

  On 4/10/2013 at 5:39 PM, Brian Tregaskin said:

legitimate regime of Assad.

hahahahahahhahaha

and i mean the "free syrian army" was a foreign army from day one. i hear they also recruited locals, but in no way al qaeda soldiers infiltrated the so-called legitimate "syrian" opposition army. it's the other way around. locals joined them

My understanding was that the FSA was largely composed of deserters from Assad's forces, at least initially. I'd be interested to know what sources suggest otherwise, but I'm also wary of trusting anything from somebody who's openly expressed a belief in a "Jewish conspiracy".