How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

  On 4/10/2013 at 5:55 PM, Iain C said:

My understanding was that the FSA was largely composed of deserters from Assad's forces, at least initially. I'd be interested to know what sources suggest otherwise, but I'm also wary of trusting anything from somebody who's openly expressed a belief in a "Jewish conspiracy".

you're a jewish conspiracy. lol

i'm too lazy right now to demonstrate my point of view, and it's not like i personnaly investigated this topic. basically i read quite a bit of ISLAMIC FASCIST propaganda.

Fair enough, Syria is largely irrelevant to this thread anyway and I'm not sure why compson brought it up.

agreed

Well I expect the images of bloodshed and warfare feed into some generalised terror he has of "the Muslim world" or w/e.

I just quoted the Syrian Civil War from wiki for context.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22095099

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Quote:

The leader of the al-Nusra Front, a jihadist group fighting in Syria, has pledged allegiance to the leader of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri.


"The sons of Al-Nusra Front pledge allegiance to Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahiri," Mr Jawalani said in a recording released on Wednesday.

But Mr Jawalani said al-Nusra had not been consulted on the merger with al-Qaeda in Iraq and insisted his group would not change its stance in Syria.

The al-Nusra statement assured Syrians that the "good behaviour" they had experienced from the front on the ground would continue unchanged, the BBC's Jim Muir reports from neighbouring Lebanon.

 

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Now, it's all over the Arab forums a word from Abu Bakr Al-Husseini Al-Qurashi Al-Baghdadi, the Amir of the Islamic State in Iraq announcing the rise of an Islamic State in Iraq and Shaam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=Y39jBxgsAUk#!

Some points made

Quote:

6- Clarifying the necessity of angering the Kuffar, and this work is something that pleases ALLAH.
7- There is no issue with discarding the names of the Jihadi groups, in order to improve the Islamic work.
8- A reminder that Sheikh Abu Mus'ab Az-Zarqawi has done this first, as he moved from the name of At-Tawhid Wal-Jihad to Qa'idat Al-Jihad Fi-Bilad Ar-Rafidayn to Majless Shurah Al-Mujahideen.
9- Pleasing ALLAH must be above any human interests.
10- Ash-Sheikh Abu Muhammad Al-Joulani is an ex-Amir at the ISI.
11- The previous Jihad of Sheikh Al-Joulani was in Iraq, and it was under the command of Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.
12- Jabhat An-Nusrah is an expansion of the ISI and is part of it.
13- And we've decided after making Tawakkul on ALLAH and doing Istikharah and taking the opinions of others to annul the name of "ISI" and "Jabhat An-Nusrah" and announce "The Islamic State in Iraq and Shaam", and so do we unify the banner of the Islamic State and the banner of Khilafah iA.
14- A call to all the tribes and the military divisions to be united under the banner of Islam only.
15- A call for the people of knowledge and the bearers of Amanah to support the Mujahideen and to move to the fronts of Jihad.
16- The ones, who will lead the Imarah in Shaam are the people of Shaam.
17- A reminder for the people of Shaam not to return again to the oppression of the dictatorship, and also not to lose the fruit of Jihad in the swamp of Democracy, like it was lost in Egypt and Tunisia.
18- A call to the people of Shaam to reject being ruled by the man-made laws, and that is from making corruption in the land.
19- A reminder for the Muhajireen to be soft and have mercy for the people of the land they've descended.

 

thanks for utterly fucking up my thread Compson and in the process blatantly disregarding logic and critical thinking.

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:55 AM, lumpenprol said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:36 AM, compson said:

Also something to note is that there are very few vocal in the Muslim community who stand up against the intolerance (in Europe and America). At least that I know of.

.

 

very good point.

 

really? That's a good point? I'm sort of baffled by that. I mean i hear grandma's say that type of shit after watching a marathon of fox news all the time, but are they actually trying to seek out muslims who 'speak out' or are they waiting for the US media to show them evidence of this? I find this premise to be 100% bullshit

  On 4/10/2013 at 7:35 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 6:54 AM, goDel said:

And that was right after the events took place, right? Things can kinda look that way in a certain emotional state. That doesn't necessarily make showing those clips propaganda, right? I mean, the media can't control what everyone thinks and feel. Influence at best. Control would imply some zombi state of mind from the viewer. (I'm taking this to extremes, just to see where this takes the argument, btw)

 

The problem with this is the problem with media in general IMO.

 

 

The reason my father thinks that people in the middle east are savages is because these celebration clips were all over the media at the time of the attacks. The problem with showing these clips is--even if the clips happen to be 100% authentic--they are a cropped picture of the world. For instance, they didn't show footage of the millions of Muslims that weren't celebrating. So if you're Joe Sixpack and you just got home from your construction job and cracked a Bud Light and turned on CNN or Fox News on 9/11 or 9/12 and the only information you're given regarding Muslims is clips of them celebrating 9/11 then of course that will affect how you regard Muslims.

 

Some people get very skeptical when you start espousing the evils of mainstream media. But the harm that the media causes is not done through any sort of active malevolence like lying or exaggerating, but rather by filtering and framing (as in how one 'frames' an issue).

 

So for instance if you were to get all of your information about Occupy Wall Street from Fox News you would hear about

people getting arrested for assault, people breaking laws, people disrupting traffic and going to the bathroom in public parks, etc. That's all true, of course, but that's a severely cropped view. And if that's the only information you were getting about Occupy Wall Street then it'd be quite easy to think--as many people seem to--that they're a group of disgusting, violent hooligans.

 

great post, and I have to say I'm pretty astounded that someone would ignorantly act as if those videos aren't propaganda.

and since it's been acceptable for Compson to post video after video of anti Islam propaganda I'll just post here videos by people he thinks are now part of some sort of 'new leftist' conspiracy (even though Chomsky and many others have been writing consistently about the same subject for over 3 decades, hardly new by any measure conceivable). I'm almost embarrassed doing something as child like by just littering the thread with more videos, but here goes. At least it will serve as an antidote if someone came to this thread out of the blue and was inundated with all different flavors of anti Islam Bush driven propaganda

  On 4/10/2013 at 9:55 AM, compson said:

 

 

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What is Southern California InFocus?

Southern California InFocus is the largest Muslim newspaper in California that comes out by the third of each month.

 

 

it begins...

lol...what??

  On 4/10/2013 at 9:20 AM, compson said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 9:09 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:55 AM, lumpenprol said:

 

  On 4/10/2013 at 8:36 AM, compson said:

Also something to note is that there are very few vocal in the Muslim community who stand up against the intolerance (in Europe and America). At least that I know of.

.

 

very good point.

 

 

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/muslims-against-islamists-hasan-mahmud

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/muslims-speak-up-and-against-radical-islamists/2011/03/29/AF5Mz8jG_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailesman/2012/02/29/american-muslims-speak-out-against-radical-islam-support-nypd/

 

That was a 10 second google search.

 

 

No shit... I said very few, which is relative to a billion people about. Just because google can search something in 10 seconds doesn't negate there being a relative lack of pro-moderate muslim protests. Though most religions are probably guilty of being cowards in this way. But it would be wise for Muslim moderates to do more stuff like this and to try and help the people who are forced to live under Sharia Law.

 

 

I commend Chengods efforts in trying to present facts to combat emotionally driven hatred but I don't think he's listening anymore

It's a Muslim newspaper. Surely if I posted an anti-muslim article from a Christian newspaper that would be received with skepticism.

And sweet I'll check out these videos. The War on Terror in regards to removing civil liberties seems completely obvious. I mean Benjamin Franklin basically mocks the American who would sacrifice freedom for security. One problem though, is the main issue I have with the CIA, War on Terror, etc is that we are really not privy to the daily intelligence. I mean we don't really know if the Patriot Act has made us safer or not. I tend to lean against this notion though. Freedoms first and foremost. Which is why I think Obama has been terrible. He simply has not delivered a strong policy with this OIC / Arab Spring "radicalization" and I think it does have something to do with Islam seeing his success as feelings of illness when we think about Bush's "Mission Accomplished." By voting for him, we were essentially saying "the last thing we want right now is a war/conflict" To which we saw 4-5 states become radical mouth pieces for religious extremists.

I don't think Bush could have done a worse job selling the war, but because his marketing for the War was so god awful , I wanted to move ahead.

I don't know what Obama is planning to do for the next 4 years. And that kind of terrifies me more than the conservatives who's are just a bit more plain spoken and straightforward.

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:07 PM, compson said:

 

I don't think Bush could have done a worse job selling the war, but because his marketing for the War was so god awful , I wanted to move ahead.

I cannot believe that an actual human being would ever say this with a straight face.

It's so strange to have met compson a number of times IRL and now to read these posts, lol. Having seen him go through a number of usernames and posting styles, I can't help but believe that this one will pass as well.

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:07 PM, compson said:

 

I don't think Bush could have done a worse job selling the war, but because his marketing for the War was so god awful , I wanted to move ahead.

 

I cannot believe that an actual human being would ever say this with a straight face.

 

When I say marketing, I mean justification.

Basically I think in terms of long term regional stability, the Iraq war has potentially been a success. Besides this the US had an obligation to bring Saddam to justice because we were partially responsible to the genocide/oppression he inflicted on his own people, the Kurds, and the Iranians. The guy was simply a sociopath. And it was in the interest of stabilizing the Middle East and ensuring Saddam isn't replaced by Saddam 2.0 when he lost power/died. Just think about it like North Korea. If no one intervenes it will just be generation after generation of the same horrible shit.

The big reason why we went for Saddam instead of say other dictators is also because of Oil. But this motivation was less about us needing or wanting those profits (as this makes absolutely no sense, in that the Iraq war costed us almost a trillion dollars) but that we want the people of Iraq, the oppressed Shia moderates to have the money so that they can use it to stabilize and grow as a society on their own terms.

Maybe the reason Bush did lie or mislead the American public is that there would be no way to "sell" or "market" this long term aim to the American Public. Had Bush/Cheney been honest and gone into detail about how much money it was going to cost, how long it was going to take, the civil war that would ensue between Shia and Sunni following the invasion, and the amount of innocent people who would be killed, as well as American troops....... there simply would have never been a war.

Further with an understanding of how these ruthless religious totalitarian states make the Middle East region a growing problem to stability and global peace by indoctrinating hate, intolerance and martyrdom, its logical to conclude the main solution to this is democracy. Because only by empowering the people of the Middle East to not be ruled by religious fanatics, who steal all of the oil for their own agenda (Saudi Arabia), will we ever see progress and peace in the region.

Long term goals just don't serve political campaigns these days unfortunately. Fear and bullshit are more compelling to the public. Which is why the "Bush Lied about WMDs" as an argument against the war is just as rhetorical and empty.

Or the idea that Bush could have gotten Osama, but because of Iraq we lost him. Getting Osama Bin Laden was an intelligence war. Had nothing to do with the amount of troops in Afghanistan imo. We simply didn't know where he was and Afghanistan does not have Oil, so stabilizing that region is gonna be a lot more challenging and time consuming for the United States.

your posts are way too long....i read the first line, that's all

(c'mon guys...shoot for concision)

  On 4/12/2013 at 7:22 AM, LimpyLoo said:

your posts are way too long....i read the first line, that's all

 

 

(c'mon guys...shoot for concision)

Sorry I tried my best

One of the most insane videos I have seen and completely captures the fear a public would have under a regime like Saddam's. A thing we don't really think about is prior to the industrial revolution and military techno progress, it was generally just about sheer numbers to have a successful revolution against a regime. Since some parts of the world are behind our progress (thanks Islam :/ ) the longer we wait the stronger the dictator's grip has over its people. I mean when you are dealing with a leader like Saddam, who will use chemical warfare on his own people, there is no path to revolution. It won't stop.

  On 4/12/2013 at 7:52 AM, compson said:

military techno

[youtubehd]adneQ7AjEBU[/youtubehd]

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:07 PM, compson said:

 

I don't think Bush could have done a worse job selling the war, but because his marketing for the War was so god awful , I wanted to move ahead.

 

I cannot believe that an actual human being would ever say this with a straight face.

 

btw I see now what you mean by this... "I wanted to move ahead" means I didn't want to even consider the other sides argument. I found their original argument for the war so flawed that I could not imagine there actually being a decent argument or convincing argument for it.

  On 4/12/2013 at 8:00 AM, compson said:

 

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 4/11/2013 at 11:07 PM, compson said:

 

I don't think Bush could have done a worse job selling the war, but because his marketing for the War was so god awful , I wanted to move ahead.

 

I cannot believe that an actual human being would ever say this with a straight face.

 

 

btw I see now what you mean by this... "I wanted to move ahead" means I didn't want to even consider the other sides argument. I found their original argument for the war so flawed that I could not imagine there actually being a decent argument or convincing argument for it.

 

oh okay I thought you mean "I wanted to go to war"

So basically Compson agrees with the Machiavellian long con of why we went into Iraq, it was just 'poorly marketed'

Compson, first you used the term 'Islamic Fascism' a term i first heard on Fox News, then you referred to the 'liberal media' another non existent concept invented by the right wing spin machine and now you've gone full Hitchens on us, all the way down to coming up with hilarious reasons for why the Iraq war was not a total shit show. I have to say I'm pretty impressed by such a ridiculous shift to the right you've made in what... just 3-4 months or so?

but most impressive, the Coup de grâce one could say, Compson jumped from the topic of Muslims being unfairly characterized, to muslim societies pose a danger, to muslims don't speak out enough against bad muslims so therefore by default they endorse it to ousting Saddam for the greater good. A perfect example of W era logic, jumping from a completely unrelated event straight to Iraq's doorstep. Bravo *claps*

  On 4/12/2013 at 9:11 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

So basically Compson agrees with the Machiavellian long con of why we went into Iraq, it was just 'poorly marketed'

 

bravo Compson, first you used the term 'Islamic Fascism' a term i first heard on Fox News, then you referred to the 'liberal media' another non existent concept invented by the right wing spin machine and now you've gone full Hitchens on us, all the way down to coming up with hilarious reasons for why the Iraq war was not a total shit show. I have to say I'm pretty impressed by such a ridiculous shift to the right you've made in what... just 3-4 months or so?

http://www.politicalreviewnet.com/polrev/reviews/JOPO/R_0022_3816_619_1007672.asp

edit:

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but most impressive, the Coup de grâce one could say, Compson jumped from the topic of Muslims being unfairly characterized, to muslim societies pose a danger, to muslims don't speak out enough against bad muslims so therefore by default they endorse it to ousting Saddam for the greater good. A perfect example of W era logic, jumping from a completely unrelated event straight to Iraq's doorstep. Bravo *claps*

 

umm... what are you even talking about? Jumped from the topic? Aren't you just taking things out of context?

Muslim societies IE FASCIST RELIGIOUS STATES POSE A THREAT TO FREE SOCIETY

And yes, Muslims fear criticizing things because some Muslims think that criticizing GOD = death. Which is why this problem is much larger than we see on the surface.

Compson, is everything alright at home?