The Quinnspiracy Theory, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games & #gamergate

Anyone following this Quinnspiracy thing care to explain what the fuck is going on? There's like a hundred convoluted infographics out there

  On 8/27/2014 at 12:26 AM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

Anyone following this Quinnspiracy thing care to explain what the fuck is going on? There's like a hundred convoluted infographics out there

 

[youtubehd]C5-51PfwI3M[/youtubehd]

Basically a bunch of lonely misogynist neckbeards who are butthurt that Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian point out the blatant sexism in the gaming industry got all excited when they found out that she slept with some people in games press, and are having a field day dragging her through the mud under the guise of 'exposing corruption in games journalism'. The fact of the matter is that their "evidence" comes from a scorned ex-boyfriend (obv not a reliable source). Also, gaming is such an insular community that they're glossing over the fact that quite a large number of people working in games have sex with other people working in games. It's kind of sad, really, and yet more fuel for the "gamers are immature teenagers & manchildren" stereotype.

Edited August 27, 2014 by autopilot

  On 8/27/2014 at 4:18 AM, autopilot said:

Basically a bunch of lonely misogynist neckbeards who are butthurt that Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian point out the blatant sexism in the gaming industry got all excited when they found out that she slept with some people in games press

What's interesting (I say interesting: by the time it hits the section at 16:55 - 18:35, the man really starts to lose any kind of credibility) about the Five-guys 'proof' is that it only looks like 2 out of the 5 were actually journalists and the one who wrote for Kotaku who is meant to be the crux of this drama, never actually reviewed any of her games (well, supposedly) - http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

^^ Yes. The fact that the Kotaku editor even feels obligated to go this in-depth over such a non-issue speaks volumes in itself. This witch hunt over the developer of a mediocre text adventure flash game, coupled with the massive amounts of angry backlash at Sarkeesian in recent weeks for her actually quite enlightening Tropes-vs-Women video series really reflects poorly on the entirety of gaming culture at the moment.

It's definitely a good concept for a series, but each episode seems to go on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long on explaining exactly the same point, and she really doesn't seem that engaging to the audience. Always seems more like an essay being read by someone rather bored at the from of class than an entertaining/informative Youtube show.

 

Plus I seem to remember that every episode was meant to cost like $2000 to make - I'm not 100% sure where that money goes ?!

 

EDIT: Apparently it earned about $160,000 so that's like over 10k per episode ?! Blimey.

Hmm... I've never heard that. Perhaps that's the cost of buying a few dozen $60 games and paying rent while playing them all through to completion (even the hundred hour open world ones) to capture footage?

Though isn't bringing up the money and whether or not she's entertaining enough, while not addressing any of the subject matter of the videos, kind of missing the point? Like if you have a massive pile of feces on your front lawn and a neighbor puts a note on your door complaining about it, you're missing the point by critiquing their handwriting and how expensive their stationery is.

  On 8/27/2014 at 4:18 AM, autopilot said:

Basically a bunch of lonely misogynist neckbeards who are butthurt that Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian point out the blatant sexism in the gaming industry got all excited when they found out that she slept with some people in games press, and are having a field day dragging her through the mud under the guise of 'exposing corruption in games journalism'. The fact of the matter is that their "evidence" comes from a scorned ex-boyfriend (obv not a reliable source). Also, gaming is such an insular community that they're glossing over the fact that quite a large number of people working in games have sex with other people working in games. It's kind of sad, really, and yet more fuel for the "gamers are immature teenagers & manchildren" stereotype.

 

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 5:55 AM, mcbpete said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 4:18 AM, autopilot said:

Basically a bunch of lonely misogynist neckbeards who are butthurt that Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian point out the blatant sexism in the gaming industry got all excited when they found out that she slept with some people in games press

What's interesting (I say interesting: by the time it hits the section at 16:55 - 18:35, the man really starts to lose any kind of credibility) about the Five-guys 'proof' is that it only looks like 2 out of the 5 were actually journalists and the one who wrote for Kotaku who is meant to be the crux of this drama, never actually reviewed any of her games (well, supposedly) - http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

 

 

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 7:19 AM, autopilot said:

^^ Yes. The fact that the Kotaku editor even feels obligated to go this in-depth over such a non-issue speaks volumes in itself. This witch hunt over the developer of a mediocre text adventure flash game, coupled with the massive amounts of angry backlash at Sarkeesian in recent weeks for her actually quite enlightening Tropes-vs-Women video series really reflects poorly on the entirety of gaming culture at the moment.

 

 

Autopilot you have a very narrow view of what is happening and you are just parroting the "feminist"/SJW viewpoint. It's honestly a little gross.

 

It's much more nuanced and detailed than what you are saying.

 

The root of the questions about Nathan involve whether he was in a relationship with a developer he quoted in a Kotaku article on 3/31 (5)

 

 

You should spend some time educating yourself before you start slinging mud. The criticism in the video was that she was receiving favor in different areas of the industry by sleeping with certain people, and that she is/was fabricating controversy in order to gain support on twitter. And it's laughable that you discredit the boyfriend for being "scorned" yet you buy into the line being fed to you by the person who was behaving unethically. I read all the chat logs. If that shit was fabricated it was fabricated by someone with a PHD in psychology and a >150 IQ, or a complete sociopath. The sheer hypocrisy she displays is enough for her to discredit herself as an individual. The criticism of the SJW click-bait nonsense is also valid. It seems that the controversy is also uncovering other unsavory behavior. On top of that people are rallying to support her by doing and saying ridiculous things. She and they are sinking so low as to call anyone who criticizes her scum and bullies.

 

The origin of the issue is that she rallied for support for misogyny off a forum post criticizing her and calling her names. She basically manipulated the movement to benefit herself. No one initially harassed her or anything like that. She made it up.

 

I'm not going to deny there is probably some gross bullying behavior happening from certain people. Maybe even some illegal shit, but that doesn't undermine the criticism. That is the internet. If she hadn't behaved so shitty to begin with, and done a better job of damage control instead of continuing to lie and fabricate things then she probably wouldn't be getting her skype accounts hacked right now. (if that is even happening)

 

And I haven't even go into the weird moderator behavior on reddit concerning the issue and blanket bans/censorship.

 

By the way this is all well documented if you look for the information. Some of it is so complicated I don't even understand it. There are doxxing accusations along with other shit.

  On 8/27/2014 at 7:19 AM, autopilot said:

^^ Yes. The fact that the Kotaku editor even feels obligated to go this in-depth over such a non-issue speaks volumes in itself. This witch hunt over the developer of a mediocre text adventure flash game, coupled with the massive amounts of angry backlash at Sarkeesian in recent weeks for her actually quite enlightening Tropes-vs-Women video series really reflects poorly on the entirety of gaming culture at the moment.

 

Isn't the criticism of her due to her supporting and fanning the flames of support for a possibly/most likely fabricated controversy that is actually shown to be biased/misandric? Not to mention supporting someone who is/has/was engaging in what could be construed has pretty misandric behavior? Manizing if you will.

 

 

Also, her videos are shit. Mostly nonsense. She disables comments on her videos while posting videos into the public that contain very powerful criticism. It's a bit silly don't you think? She is honestly grasping at straws. If I had the time and desire I could make a counter argument for probably all of her points. It's like she wants us to deny altogether that women are sexually attractive. As if we shouldn't focus on it. As if reality doesn't portray what she says is "too prevalent" in games. Does she want to see men in lingerie getting beat to death? It sort of seems like she does.

Edited August 27, 2014 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

  On 8/27/2014 at 8:39 AM, autopilot said:

Though isn't bringing up the money and whether or not she's entertaining enough, while not addressing any of the subject matter of the videos, kind of missing the point? Like if you have a massive pile of feces on your front lawn and a neighbor puts a note on your door complaining about it, you're missing the point by critiquing their handwriting and how expensive their stationery is.

OK true, maybe I'll post an addendum - For the amount she's been given for the project it would've been more constructive to include things like interviews with industry and/or female developers, have discussion pieces with guests/journalists, dialogue with the audience for future episodes, just something to break up the half hour soapbox piece.

 

To put it in perspective, here's a pilot made by a few friends of mine of similar length. But is broken up into bite size segments to keep the audience engaged over the 25 mins -

 

 

(plus they did the whole project for free - just grabbing equipment/time from friends and getting permission to record in a studio where one of them works)

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 9:38 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

She disables comments on her videos while posting videos into the public that contain very powerful criticism.

Nah there's a good reason for her doing this. When she allowed comments for the kickstarter preview video this fountain of bile fell out - http://i.imgur.com/h0Nr2JD.jpg

I tried reading up on this whole Zoe Quinn scandal, but after reviewing the situation breifly via summary articles, I came to the quick conclusion that I really don't give a shit if some "journalist" slept her way to the top... It does nothing to effect my enjoyment of any game I play, I've always taken every game review with a grain of salt anyways.

I haven't read a single game news/review website in years. Most reviews are just as corrupt and bought as Pitchforks 8.8/10 review for Daft Punk's Random Acces Memories.

 

 

I mostly look at what people are talking about and check stuff out that way. As it should be.

  On 8/27/2014 at 10:40 AM, triachus said:

I haven't read a single game news/review website in years. Most reviews are just as corrupt and bought as Pitchforks 8.8/10 review for Daft Punk's Random Acces Memories.

 

 

I mostly look at what people are talking about and check stuff out that way. As it should be.

I find Metacritic to be relatively reliable for user reviews on games. There seems to be a disconnect between the user reviews and the critic reviews half the time tho.

Edited August 27, 2014 by ambermonk

I'll go to gamespot/IGN to see news of what's coming out or in development but for reviews i trust metacritic and player reviews a lot more

  On 8/27/2014 at 10:06 AM, mcbpete said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 8:39 AM, autopilot said:

Though isn't bringing up the money and whether or not she's entertaining enough, while not addressing any of the subject matter of the videos, kind of missing the point? Like if you have a massive pile of feces on your front lawn and a neighbor puts a note on your door complaining about it, you're missing the point by critiquing their handwriting and how expensive their stationery is.

OK true, maybe I'll post an addendum - For the amount she's been given for the project it would've been more constructive to include things like interviews with industry and/or female developers, have discussion pieces with guests/journalists, dialogue with the audience for future episodes, just something to break up the half hour soapbox piece.

 

To put it in perspective, here's a pilot made by a few friends of mine of similar length. But is broken up into bite size segments to keep the audience engaged over the 25 mins -

 

 

(plus they did the whole project for free - just grabbing equipment/time from friends and getting permission to record in a studio where one of them works)

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 9:38 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

She disables comments on her videos while posting videos into the public that contain very powerful criticism.

Nah there's a good reason for her doing this. When she allowed comments for the kickstarter preview video this fountain of bile fell out - http://i.imgur.com/h0Nr2JD.jpg

 

 

That isn't a good reason.

You seriously would be happy to put up with that shit every time you posted a video or comment about something?

No, I wouldn't be happy that there shitty immature people out their dirtying up my comment section, but I wouldn't censor everyone so that I could avoid any criticism altogether.

This whole shit flinging crap fight over social justice is stupid. Both sides of this debate need to stop treating the other side like brainwashed, thoughtless morons. You look at twitter, and there is no debate at all, and when there is one party blocks the other immediately and starts posting passive agressive remarks towards the other. I've seen people who I considered to be praise worthy (Tim Schafer comes to mind) retweet and say the most stupid shit.

 

Both sides have valid complaints. But unless there is a neutral debate between mature, reasonable adults from both sides, this is going nowhere. Unfortunately that's not gonna happen; mostly cause it's not in the interest of Shitaku and those awful webzines

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:19 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

No, I wouldn't be happy that there shitty immature people out their dirtying up my comment section, but I wouldn't censor everyone so that I could avoid any criticism altogether.

The thing is though, if it's your Youtube channel in this day of being able to monitor and filter comments and you leave all that shite on there it looks like you're condoning it. Here's quite a good argument saying pretty much that:

 

Focusing on the comments thing is silly. She is retarded, intellectually dishonest, downright a liar, and BAD FOR FEMINISM. If you support her I wonder for your ability to reason. She can respond to her shit comments or make a top comment disclaimer on all her videos if she wants. I imagine she is even capable of deleting the obviously bullshit troll comments as well.

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:35 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Focusing on the comments thing is silly. She is retarded, intellectually dishonest, downright a liar, and BAD FOR FEMINISM. If you support her I wonder for your ability to reason. She can respond to her shit comments or make a top comment disclaimer on all her videos if she wants. I imagine she is even capable of deleting the obviously bullshit troll comments as well.

 

Sorry man, that video really doesn't come across as a good counter argument. That sounds like a guy having a bit of a break down trying to justify what is still such a negative stereotyping of women (why isn't it a male strip club for example, and why does the dialogue of the women have to be that of them sleeping around).

 

I'm gonna back away from this though as I can imagine the topic may get quite explosive quite quickly. Plus this topic is 'what video games are you currently playing !'

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:46 PM, mcbpete said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:35 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Focusing on the comments thing is silly. She is retarded, intellectually dishonest, downright a liar, and BAD FOR FEMINISM. If you support her I wonder for your ability to reason. She can respond to her shit comments or make a top comment disclaimer on all her videos if she wants. I imagine she is even capable of deleting the obviously bullshit troll comments as well.

 

Sorry man, that video really doesn't come across as a good counter argument. That sounds like a guy having a bit of a break down trying to justify what is still such a negative stereotyping of women (why isn't it a male strip club for example, and why does the dialogue of the women have to be that of them sleeping around).

 

I'm gonna back away from this though as I can imagine the topic may get quite explosive quite quickly. Plus this topic is 'what video games are you currently playing !'

 

 

I can't continue to explain simple and obvious things to people who lack the ability to recognize them. sorry.

No need to apologise for us having differing viewpoints man.

AdieuErsatz fighting the good fight against those horrible people so concerned with social justice they've earned the term being used as a pejorative. See if you can guess which one in the video is him...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROHvvtUcp8I