The Quinnspiracy Theory, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games & #gamergate

  On 8/29/2014 at 10:30 AM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

Anyways, most videogames suffer from bad writing overall, not only in the "gender tropes" aspect

@PeterMolydeux (The fake @Peter Molyneux) made a great tweet about that when he was talking about the Silent Hill franchise (though looking for it oddly all the posts seem to have gone). It was something like, every time they make a game, they should simultaneously produce a stage play with the same dialogue to see if it holds up to the scrutiny of an audience.

 

EDIT - Quite a good debate about the Zoe Quinn thing here:

 

i thought that was a really interesting debate and I don't know anything about this subject. IT's true that gaming journalism at least to me has always seemed (even since the days of EGM and Gamepro) to be highly incestuious payola based bullshit, I haven't even seen in a minor nudge towards a more truly journalistic approach to videogaming 20 years later.

I am not a gamer, but I think the AS videos are really good.

 

They are perfect—she doesn’t attack any specific games or go into what “should be done”, she just plays some clips, lets the clips mostly speak for themselves, and provides some commentary.

 

I suspect that’s why the “two sides” of this debate have such outrageous reactions. For me, not having played a game since like, Shogo: Mobile Armor Division, it was horrifying to see how many terrible examples of chauvinism persist in modern games. Like literally, seeing all that stuff lined up together was very shocking. To me the clips spoke for themselves.

 

However I can imagine that, if you’ve been marinated in that gamer culture, you could cruise through that sort of a clip show and come out the other side like, so… what’s the big deal? It’s the stuff you’re used to seeing. In that sense it would probably be better for a gaming “insider” to present these opinions, so that the subject can be approached in a way other gamers find sympathetic to their hobby.

 

The actual crazy part is how people have reacted to these videos. Yes, they made a big ruckus in the press, and they present a strong opinion, but the videos are damn COURTEOUS, almost to a fault. There’s no ranting, the discussion sticks mostly to the facts, and the tone of her narration (at least in the videos I’ve seen) is dry and almost academic.

 

So basically, she’s opening up what by all rights should be a calm and rational DISCUSSION of this phenomenon. But people reacted as if she was ATTACKING games, like actively trying to take them away! Which is not the case at all!

 

I dunno, it just seems weird. Like people’s brains are SO FRIED, they can’t even handle watching a 15 minute video that RESPECTFULLY PRESENTS a point-of-view that they happen to disagree with? How do these people function in society if this is how they react to cordial, nuanced discussion that may bump up against their inherent sensibilities?

 

I mean, I don’t want to go too far here, but a small but significant of chauvinism is, as far as I know, that some men find it extremely uncomfortable to be questioned—in any substantive way—by a woman. Perhaps that’s why simple, well-researched videos feel to so many crazy neck beards like a dangerous personal attack?

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ascdi

The internet is a newish form of communication and it has almost no consequence for venting you frustrations and expressing yourself in a destructive way which unfortunately leaves a lot of garbage to be sifted through. It also does not help that immaturity tends to make these types of venting more prevalent. It is what it is.You cannot teach something that can only be learned through experience and self-reflection. You can only set an example and guide others. Maybe one day we will have a more enlightened society but that time is not now.

  On 9/2/2014 at 7:53 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

The internet is a newish form of communication and it has almost no consequence for venting you frustrations and expressing yourself in a destructive way which unfortunately leaves a lot of garbage to be sifted through. It also does not help that immaturity tends to make these types of venting more prevalent. It is what it is.You cannot teach something that can only be learned through experience and self-reflection. You can only set an example and guide others. Maybe one day we will have a more enlightened society but that time is not now.

 

So you're saying that when women or indeed any other person on the internet is exposed to abuse, they should just take it until the people throwing it learn how to be adults? Or when exposed to actual threats of physical threats of violence against their selves and their families, even when setting that example you were talking about? Because this is the situation we're talking about: a lot of people making either fake or very real threats against a woman who dared to post a video talking about computer games.

 

I think reporting these people and letting them face justice in the real world and expediting the consequences is good experience, and much more in line with an enlightened society that you speak of, one that doesn't tolerate such venting that makes someone else suffer because some petty person somewhere is angry and inarticulate. Perhaps then people will learn that you shouldn't say shit you're going to backpedal on when a cop is on your doorstep placing you under arrest, which has happened many times already with twitter, and I hope continues to happen until people learn that spouting off on the internet actually DOES have consequences.

  On 8/27/2014 at 11:16 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

At first I thought they were all deleted and I was like WTF. But also, you missed a few regarding Anita's videos.

  On 8/27/2014 at 10:22 PM, Braintree said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:55 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

I can't continue to explain simple and obvious things to people who lack the ability to recognize them. sorry.

 

A not-quite-so-simple observation of mine is that those unwilling to entertain the ideas of others generally either lack maturity or intellect.

 

 

I can't tell if you are criticizing me or agreeing with me.

 

It's a criticism about your readiness to mock or otherwise insult whoever you're debating.

 

The "internet tough guy" persona is very unbecoming.

  On 9/3/2014 at 5:08 AM, Braintree said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 11:16 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

At first I thought they were all deleted and I was like WTF. But also, you missed a few regarding Anita's videos.

  On 8/27/2014 at 10:22 PM, Braintree said:

 

  On 8/27/2014 at 3:55 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

I can't continue to explain simple and obvious things to people who lack the ability to recognize them. sorry.

 

A not-quite-so-simple observation of mine is that those unwilling to entertain the ideas of others generally either lack maturity or intellect.

 

 

I can't tell if you are criticizing me or agreeing with me.

 

It's a criticism about your readiness to mock or otherwise insult whoever you're debating.

 

The "internet tough guy" persona is very unbecoming.

 

 

I'm working on it. I thought I kept it pretty civil in this thread all things considered.

Sarkeesian is scum even for her own cause

 

Ever find out what happened to the money she took off kickstarter for that stupidass women in video games tropes video series she was going to do? Oh yeah I remember now, she just kept the money and made like one shitty video which as others have pointed out, she posted with comments and ratings disabled.

 

She is garbage, her points are garbage, her entire viewpoint is fucking trash

 

"Hurrdurr look women are portrayed too sexually in video games, it's unrealistic and sets high expectations for women!"

 

How many male main characters aren't muscle-bound Herculean monsters? I guarantee you male bodies in video games are contorted off realistic scales more than female ones. I guarantee you female bodies in video games are more attainable than the male ones often portrayed

 

She is trash.

Males aren't held to the same standard in society in general. That's the crux of their argument, dude.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Braintree

Wow, this thing keeps escalating to even-more ridiculous levels each day. I follow a bunch of indie devs I like on Twitter and my feed is just non-stop with this shit.

 

Lol @ "Classical Minorities Only"

 

Two observations:

1) If Zoe Quinn was the first thing that made you realize games press and their 7-10 EA & Activision funded review scale was a load of horseshit you've been living under a rock.

2) This kind of ideological myopia can only arise when people are living so comfortably that video games are their entire existence. It's pretty gross. If only they got this outraged at NSA warrantless spying, Wall Street corruption, the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, Fukushima, or the US government funding the terrorism cells that it then later condemns and uses to justify military intervention. But I guess in their tiny world all that's irrelevant because Isreal v Palestine isn't going to affect whether or not there's a female playable character in Assassin's Creed 8.

This Guardian article sums up everything quite succinctly and fairly objectively (imo), and isn't a games blog:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/03/gamergate-corruption-games-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn

 

This Brietbart article is the only thing I could find that argues in favor of the "other side":

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart

 

^^ While it seems to largely exist as clickbait for a blogger who's seen the #GamerGate hashtag trending, I felt I'd post it just for the sake of repping some alternative view of the events. The irony I see is that one of the main criticisms of Sarkeesian is that she's an outsider non-gamer (debatable) just trying to get attention & internet fame, while the same people spouting those crticisms are championing this admitted outsider non-gamer's article because it agrees with them.

Edited September 3, 2014 by autopilot

Anita gets flack for skewing her speech in a misogynistic way.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgW5NRUfs44#t=29

 

http://elevatorgate.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/does-prostituted-women-have-connotations-femfreqvideo-games/

 

These links can be nasty but they contain a lot of information. Some claims are questionable others can be proven. They are NSFW.

 

https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Zoe_Quinn

 

https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Feminist_Frequency

 

Supposed credible death threat came before Anita tweets about it.

 

 

Some very scary threats have just been made against me and my family. Contacting authorities now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgW5NRUfs44#t=29

 

Video that begins to explain the complicated relationships between all people involved.

 

How she destroyed The Fine Young Capitalists Game Jam

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d6Q3VpqXyk

 

Also notable, @legobutts AKA Maya Felix Kramer who has a business relationship with Anita Sarkeesian helps Zoey Quinn DDOS/DOXX

 

 

 

 

 

Thinks that tweeting out harassment on her twitter is appropriate, but won't allow comments on her videos.

 

“Go ahead, screen capture this and tweet it you piece of shit” ummm… ok. I’m not afraid of strawman "rebuttals". pic.twitter.com/8B74uYJOOU

Anita asks for monthly donations on top of her 160k kickstarter.

 

http://www.feministfrequency.com/donate/

 

 

This tweet came a day after her alleged threat and hours after she tweeted the alledged screen cap

 

 

steals footage, doesn't credit the uploader, claims to record her own footage.

 

.... *slowly backs out of thread*

  On 9/4/2014 at 11:03 AM, triachus said:

.... *slowly backs out of thread*

 

Why because you think the information posted is wrong or? Like I would love people to show conflicting evidence, but I haven't seen it. I've seen evidence that needs to be corroborated. I'm just tried of talking about it so I figured I would post some evidence I've looked over.

Feminist Frequency is proud to be a public-benefit nonprofit in the state of California & we are thrilled to now have federal 501c3 status!

*clicks on links AdieuErsatzAnnui posted*

 

  Quote

 

 

Zoe Quinn (powerword Chelsea Van Valkenburg) is a rainbow-haired feminazi, shitty video game developer, a popular item on the menu at the fast food chain restaurant Five Guys Burgers & Fries, andinternet whore

 

  Quote

 

 

Feminist Frequency, real name Anita Sarkeesian^✡, is a feminazi bitch and "pop culture critic" with whore earrings who complains about shit nobody cares about on her site and Jewtube.

  On 9/4/2014 at 11:16 AM, autopilot said:

 

*clicks on links AdieuErsatzAnnui posted*

 

  Quote

 

 

Zoe Quinn (powerword Chelsea Van Valkenburg) is a rainbow-haired feminazi, shitty video game developer, a popular item on the menu at the fast food chain restaurant Five Guys Burgers & Fries, andinternet whore

 

  Quote

 

 

Feminist Frequency, real name Anita Sarkeesian^✡, is a feminazi bitch and "pop culture critic" with whore earrings who complains about shit nobody cares about on her site and Jewtube.

I'm out.

 

 

I said there was nasty stuff on there. There is also relevant information...But it's cool that you use that as an excuse to put blinders on. You also don't need to even look at the links. I've made it easy and posted large pictures.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

Yes, I should totally take seriously any information presented on a page run by 4channers that posts pics like this:

 

...with the caption "much better".

 

If you can't find a better source of information/discussion than Encyclopedia Dramatica, maybe there's a reason for that.

 

As for massive amounts of screenshots pedantically picking apart Zoe Quinn's tweets, I'm not even sure what "point" any of that is proving other than she has a lot of obsessed stalkers now dedicated to documenting her every move.

Edited September 4, 2014 by autopilot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPIu3sDkEw

@14:14

 

@48:09

 

The cool thing is when you look at information and not articles telling you their opinion you can form your own.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

 

 

If anyone knows how to use rs.peoplebrowsr.com and can get the original version of that supposed copy of the "death threat" tweet then I would appreciate it. I can only find that screen cap of it, and I'd like to know for myself if it did indeed come after Anita's tweet above. It was a day earlier according to these logs.

  On 9/4/2014 at 11:23 AM, autopilot said:

Yes, I should totally take seriously any information presented on a page run by 4channers that posts pics like this:

 

...with the caption "much better".

 

If you can't find a better source of information/discussion than Encyclopedia Dramatica, maybe there's a reason for that.

 

As for massive amounts of screenshots pedantically picking apart Zoe Quinn's tweets, I'm not even sure what "point" any of that is proving other than she has a lot of obsessed stalkers now dedicated to documenting her every move.

 

Encyclopedia dramatic is not the source. That is were it is neatly packaged. The source is the internet where you can check all the information yourself for the most part. Please stop trying to make it seem like what I'm presenting is in no way relevant or substantial. Also, the pictures are relevant so your immediate denial of them is telling.

 

We have also established that there are some nasty things out there concerning both of them, but that doesn't discredit FACTS in anyway. Using it as a way to get discredit facts is dishonest.

Edited September 4, 2014 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

  On 9/4/2014 at 10:43 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Anita asks for monthly donations on top of her 160k kickstarter.

 

That's not her twitter handle though ...