The Quinnspiracy Theory, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games & #gamergate

  On 9/4/2014 at 11:50 PM, mcbpete said:

From the same interview:

 

  Quote

Multiplayer: Does it feel odd being the object of desire by so many people, especially gamers?

 

Webb: You know, when you don't read the forums,you don't really think about it. If you don't really interact with fan sites and that kind of thing, then you just kind of live your life. Which is good. I don't want to constantly read fan forums and find people who think I'm "hot" or something because then that's not a normal life. I feel like you can't really live like that because then your entire ego is going to be wrapped up in what random people think of you and what forum you land on that day because half the forums are going to be like "She's dumb and she has ugly hair" or something. People are just going to write how your hair was ugly that day or how your outfit was stupid or how you look fat or whatever and it's like, you know what? I'm trying, I'm working really hard, and I'm putting myself out there.

Yep, sounds like she's treated completely fairly based on her gender

 

Actually he blatantly states it gives her advantages.

  On 9/5/2014 at 12:05 AM, autopilot said:

There's multiple segments in that interview where she mentions online harassment and people questioning if she's a "real gamer" because she's a woman, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by posting it. Is it that some things never change?

Yep, she doesn't make online harassment gender specific. She also was doing this in 2003 so I dunno. The question is a legitimate one. One cannot determine if she actually games by her TV show presentation. She also say that it might be due to purely being shit at communicating.

Webb: I do not read fan e-mail because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody, and I don't read forums because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody. And it would be really great if I could go on a forum and talk to people who like the show and talk about games, but I can't because there's some 14 year-old jerk somewhere who just wants to be an idiot and try and get attention.

Multiplayer: Do you think you encountered any challenges during your career that men would've never had to face?

Webb: Not really...on the other hand, I wouldn't be where I am if I were a man, to be honest.

I do think about it a lot. It used to really bother me that men, and not purposefully and not really with any malice, would assume that I don't really know what I'm talking about or would know less than a man on the topic, but then I have to just say, you know what, if I were a guy, I'd probably be like an editor at GameSpot, you know what I mean? Which is fine, which is totally respectable, but I wouldn't have my own TV show.

Webb: Not really. And the thing is, I'm not the only female around. There's other women, and the PR departments are all female.

Even just any woman, you're "the woman." You stick out in some people's minds, and I think that would give you an advantage.

Because I think in the end, the guys want women around because, I'd want women around, and they're going to respect you if you know your s--t... I

On the other hand, games are supposed to be fun and like a time-waster. And I don't think the world will necessarily be a better place if I get lots of young woman to play video games. Does that make sense? But if a woman wants to play video games, more power to her. They're fun, and I enjoy it. It makes me feel like a happier person, but I have a lot of girlfriends who couldn't care less about video games... and I don't think their lives are missing anything for that. But on the other hand, I would be happy if there were more women in the video game industry. I think there would be more video games for women. So it would sort of be perpetuating, but I don't think it's a noble mission to... there are bigger problems in the world than women not playing video games. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Do you think it's harder for women to break into the industry?

Webb: I don't think so. I think if a woman comes in with good credentials, strong writing skills and a visible passion for [gaming], I think she's going to have an advantage. I think employers recognize that hey, it's probably good to have some women in here. [laughs]

Webb: Because boys like girls, straight up. Because Nerd #14 getting hired at Kotaku; not a story. Hot chick? Story. You talk to her about why they're a woman in the gaming industry. Guys all think, "Wow, wouldn't it be great if there were more? Even though she'd veto my triple-X busted woman that I want to put in this video game." [laughs]

Here's the thing: 99.9 percent of people are awesome and cool and fine and normal, and there's the 0.1 percent of people who are morons and chicken-s--t a--holes, and they ruin it for everybody. And that sucks because I do not read fan e-mail because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody, and I don't read forums because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody. And it would be really great if I could go on a forum and talk to people who like the show and talk about games, but I can't because there's some 14 year-old jerk somewhere who just wants to be an idiot and try and get attention. And then you can't engage them because if you give them attention, then they win. And it's really unfortunate, and I wish that weren't true but that's the nature of the Internet; everybody gets a voice whether or not they deserve one, and I think it'd be great to get some sort of verification system so people could take ownership of their names and reputations. I think that situation, there could be some really interesting conversations. Until that day, I stay away.

lol why would I ever post in this thread my bad

lol

Lek

Cause you're a masochist with no life, and you've already jerked off 10 times today to Anita Sarkeesian videos. Really though, who does't love a strong opinionated woman. It reminds me of my mother.

Anyway, I've said my piece, and spent like a million more hours talking and thinking about this than I should. So, I'm going to have to bow out. Thank you for joining me on this adventure. See you next time something controversial is said that spawns a heated debate about people's worldviews that are ultimately subjective and limited.

This is such an important issue and Anita Sekestaeinan deserves all the attention she gets for her well-produced videos.

Oh lols... 4chan IRC raid-planning chat logs from the last 3 weeks have just been leaked, implicating everything from #GamerGate, the anti-SJW movement, threats aimed at Anita & other female games writers, masking a concerted effort to harass Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian as "rooting out unethical behavior in games journalists" to get simple minded gamers to do their dirty work... was all just a plot by 4-5 calculating and particularly clever anti-feminist 'channers. Though I guess not clever enough... the name of the chatroom where they organized all of this from the start? #BurgersAndFries

How does it feel to have been psychologically played by a bunch of internet trolls, AdieuErsatzEnnui?

Sorry for bumping this thread. Now's an appropriate time to let it die, I think.

You can keep posting and making yourself look stupid if you'd like. I told you I'm done discussing this so please do not speak directly to me in this thread.

  On 9/6/2014 at 9:07 PM, autopilot said:

Oh lols... 4chan IRC raid-planning chat logs from the last 3 weeks have just been leaked

I don't think it qualifies as "leaking" if anyone could just get in, though. There were like 400 people on those IRC rooms. Not exactly secret. Anyone could wander in and contribute. They weren't the figures in the shadow controlling people like puppets you seem to think they are

And then again, just because there were some bored people roleplaying psyops (as there always are in these situations) does not mean we were ALL foiled by some anti feminist masterminds, and it's pretty silly to think so. There are some awful people in the SJW side, but that does not make all of their points null. Some for the "anti SJW" side

  On 9/7/2014 at 12:42 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

You can keep posting and making yourself look stupid if you'd like. I told you I'm done discussing this so please do not speak directly to me in this thread.

I don’t blame you for anything you posted in this thread, but I have to say, from my point of view, you’ve said some CRAZY shit here. Maybe you don’t care about my opinion, and I guess that’s fine, but maybe step back a bit, if you have some free time, and try and see things from the other point of view too. I’m not saying you HAVE to change your mind, but some of the anti-feminism stuff that is going on related to these issues is pernicious, STRAIGHT UP delusional shit. In my opinion.

Consider this your invitation to step away from the black-and-white insanity that these events have provoked and to come join us over here in the land of nuanced discussion and empathy. It’s nice over here.

The people who are really being played here are the people who are sticking up for the games industry’s “right” to make sexist games, “as long as they are entertaining” or “because they are just for fun” or because “they’re not supposed to be realistic” or whatever.

The games industry is a bunch of mostly giant amoral corporations who don’t give a fuck about ANY point-of-view. The only thing they care about is making money, and sexist violent garbage sells a lot. So that’s what they make.

People “standing up for the games industry” are getting clowned in my opinion. Those fuckers wouldn’t do the same for you. They’ll just take your 60 bucks HOWEVER they can get it and they don’t care either way.

If it suddenly came true that they could sell feminist video games for 80 bucks a pop you can bet your ass Simone de Beauvoirquest 1–7 would be on the market ASAP for all the major platforms.

  On 9/7/2014 at 12:59 AM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

 

I don't think it qualifies as "leaking" if anyone could just get in, though. There were like 400 people on those IRC rooms. Not exactly secret. Anyone could wander in and contribute. They weren't the figures in the shadow controlling people like puppets you seem to think they are

 

And then again, just because there were some bored people roleplaying psyops (as there always are in these situations) does not mean we were ALL foiled by some anti feminist masterminds, and it's pretty silly to think so. There are some awful people in the SJW side, but that does not make all of their points null. Some for the "anti SJW" side

 

Ok I guess it's not technically a "leak" then.

Are you honestly buying the whole "it was all just IRC roleplaying" bit though?

  On 9/7/2014 at 2:45 AM, Ascdi said:

The people who are really being played here are the people who are sticking up for the games industry’s “right” to make sexist games, “as long as they are entertaining” or “because they are just for fun” or because “they’re not supposed to be realistic” or whatever.

 

The games industry is a bunch of mostly giant amoral corporations who don’t give a fuck about ANY point-of-view. The only thing they care about is making money, and sexist violent garbage sells a lot. So that’s what they make.

 

People “standing up for the games industry” are getting clowned in my opinion. Those fuckers wouldn’t do the same for you. They’ll just take your 60 bucks HOWEVER they can get it and they don’t care either way.

 

If it suddenly came true that they could sell feminist video games for 80 bucks a pop you can bet your ass Simone de Beauvoirquest 1–7 would be on the market ASAP for all the major platforms.

All great points. There were/are, unfortunately, a lot of people genuinely none-too-pleased about the cozy relationship between publishers and "critics" who thought that's actually what #GamerGate was about. It's unfortunate that they were used to further the agenda of some hate mongers, but the good that's come out of this is at least that that conversation & the sexism conversation is going on to begin with.

  On 9/7/2014 at 2:28 AM, Ascdi said:

 

  On 9/7/2014 at 12:42 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

You can keep posting and making yourself look stupid if you'd like. I told you I'm done discussing this so please do not speak directly to me in this thread.

 

I don’t blame you for anything you posted in this thread, but I have to say, from my point of view, you’ve said some CRAZY shit here. Maybe you don’t care about my opinion, and I guess that’s fine, but maybe step back a bit, if you have some free time, and try and see things from the other point of view too. I’m not saying you HAVE to change your mind, but some of the anti-feminism stuff that is going on related to these issues is pernicious, STRAIGHT UP delusional shit. In my opinion.

 

Consider this your invitation to step away from the black-and-white insanity that these events have provoked and to come join us over here in the land of nuanced discussion and empathy. It’s nice over here.

 

Why don't you take your bullshit, condescending, and offensive as fuck statement and shove it up your ass? I've already asked people to stop responding to me, and I've already made the effort to stop responding in the thread. Enjoy your echo chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

How about you just /lastpost yourself out of this thread?

Fuck's sake.

Just stop looking at the thread.

Aye AdieuErsatzEnnui, you really aren't coming across at all well here. You seem to be happily siding with those that 'all of this is made up, it's fine what's been going on, why are these people getting prissy over nothing' when this clearly isn't the case. People are getting abused verbally and are having constant threats directed at them based on nothing but their gender, and you're OK with that?! That's the viewpoint that you think is the most justified?!

uh oh

http://pastebin.com/zRZvR6tE

  On 9/7/2014 at 10:59 PM, whylessness said:

uh oh

 

http://pastebin.com/zRZvR6tE

A blog post that cites a bunch of anonymous internet users & Youtube personalities as sources, making unsubstantiated, unprovable claims of indie dev conspiracy, seemingly with the main goal of attacking Phil Fish, one of Quinn's higher-profile (though admittedly insufferable) supporters. Have we learned nothing from this thread?

[edit] Johnathan Blow now commenting on the how the timeline of events in this is technically impossible, thus entirely fabricated.

But yo, if you're looking to read up on the subject by someone that could theoretically be called a "games journalist", here's a very thorough, fact-checked, well written RPS piece from 2 years ago that's not in any way capitalizing on the momentum of "GamerGate":

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/07/the-competition-the-story-behind-the-igfs-critics/

Now could we maybe get a mod to lock this thread to prevent more unintentional (or intentional) signal-boosting for what's now very obviously been exposed as a misogynist internet hate campaign?

  On 9/8/2014 at 12:10 AM, autopilot said:

But yo, if you're looking to read up on the subject by someone that could theoretically be called a "games journalist", here's a very thorough, fact-checked, well written RPS piece from 2 years ago that's not in any way capitalizing on the momentum of "GamerGate":

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/07/the-competition-the-story-behind-the-igfs-critics/

 

Now could we maybe get a mod to lock this thread to prevent more unintentional (or intentional) signal-boosting for what's now very obviously been exposed as a misogynist internet hate campaign?

Following SJW form perfectly by attempting to censor debate. Cool that one dude was talking about the needed changes to the IGF back then.

How about this.

'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over. Exclusive

Leigh Alexander

Gamasutra

Aug 28, 10:00am

An awful week to care about video games

Chris Plante

Polygon

Aug 28, 1:21pm

The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them

Casey Johnson

Ars Technica

Aug 28, 5:00pm

A Guide to Ending "Gamers"

Devin Wilson

Gamasutra

Aug 28, 7:57 pm

We Might Be Witnessing The 'Death of An Identity'

Luke Plunkett

Kotaku

Aug 28, 8:00pm

Gaming Is Leaving “Gamers” Behind

Joseph Bernstein

Buzzfeed

Aug 28, 8:29 pm

Sexism, Misogyny, and online attacks: It's a horrible time to consider yourself a gamer

Patrick O'Rourke

Financial Post

Aug 28, 9:33pm

It's Dangerous to Go Alone: Why Are Gamers So Angry?

Arthur Chu

The Daily Beast

Aug 28, time unknown

The End of Gamers

Dan Golding

Tumblr

Aug 28, time unknown

This guy's embarassing relationship drama is killing the 'gamer' identity

Mike Pearl

Vice

Aug 29, time unknown

Why #GamerGate Is a Lie Gamers Need to Stop Telling Themselves

Dan Seitz

Sep 2, time unknown

Gamergate: the community is eating itself but there should be room for all

Keith Stuart

Sep 3, time unknown

And how about this one?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/01/how-to-attack-a-woman-who-works-in-video-games

Written by a financial supporter of Zoe Quinn, and someone who is financially supported by Maya Felix Kramer, Zoe Quinn's PR person and a business colleague of Anita Sarkeesian.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

Games press discusses most interesting thing currently going on in the industry during what are traditionally the dryest news months (post-E3, pre-November release assault). Games press all says similar shit to gain clicks from current controversy. That's not proof of conspiracy in the slightest.

Every time you throw around SJW as a pejorative you paint yourself as intolerant & anti-progressive. Explain to me again why being an advocate of social justice is such an abhorrent thing, preferably without deferring to "some people on Tumblr are weird".

Oh sorry, I'm directly addressing you again, which you requested I did not when you threw a tantrum & quit the thread. My apologies.

These threats are not being made because someone is merely female.

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/

http://kotaku.com/death-threats-follow-small-call-of-duty-tweak-888324886

She is referring to death threats made towards males with this comment below.

"Although ugly and uncomfortable, the death threats often seem to be empty threats, thankfully."

So... a completely anonymous blog post (that from what it looks like has been created entirely to hate on Sarkeesian) & an article about how childish Call of Duty fans are somehow makes all the threats & harassment okay? If anything the Call of Duty article (which is the only one I'm willing to address since it's not anonymous and written post-GamerGate) simply illustrates further how immature and unable to handle criticism/change the gaming community is.

On your continued labelling of me as an SJW, I don't even agree with a chunk of the points Sarkeesian brings up. However, I don't feel that she, or any female games writer ([edit] OR ANYONE OF ANY GENDER), deserves to be sent threats accompanying their home address and pictures of their house simply for voicing their view on things. If you genuinely have a problem with censorship, explain how the above is anything but an attempt to censor a dissenting voice through aggressive harassment?

I don't even know what you're trying to argue at this point, or why.