Losing the 'one' in tracks and knowing it

Here u go u plebz

 

 

sd stars.mp3 472.45 kB · 6 downloads

the fenomena I think is not so much about timesigs so much as having two (or more) different ticks going at the same time and losing one of them, catching the other etc prime examples of this (that i remember) are

 

(mentioned before in thread, one tick before 0:55 two ticks after)

 

(one tick before 0:47 two ticks after happens again rlly clearly at pre/post 3:05)

 

(one tick before 0:39 two ticks RLLY clearly after this one throws me off every. single. time)

 

on all of these I cannot for the life of me listen to them with the first tick throughout but I did at first! is like two different tracks in one!

The first two you posted weren't a problem over here, ie they didn't cause my perception of the pulse to shift (presumably that's what you mean).

 

With the GC track things are a little more tricky: the first hi-hat heard is one 16th right after beat 1. The three hi-hats that are close together (32nd notes) end on beat 3.

  On 2/13/2018 at 12:13 AM, IOS said:

The first two you posted weren't a problem over here, ie they didn't cause my perception of the pulse to shift (presumably that's what you mean).

 

With the GC track things are a little more tricky: the first hi-hat heard is one 16th right after beat 1. The three hi-hats that are close together (32nd notes) end on beat 3.

aye, now try forcibly to shift the perception on the first two to the drum beat (I recommend speakers it somehow makes the shift more natural).. you'll never be able to come back!

  On 9/3/2014 at 10:08 PM, auxien said:

I love/hate when this  happens. And it always happens for me on some tracks.

 

These two Police tracks come to mind first. Fucking pseudo-reggae. Fucking Stewart Copeland.

 

trick @ 3:50

  On 9/3/2014 at 10:08 PM, auxien said:

I love/hate when this  happens. And it always happens for me on some tracks.

These two Police tracks come to mind first. Fucking pseudo-reggae. Fucking Stewart Copeland.

yeah this one is tricky as hell, he's doing the kick in the place of the snare and that rimshot doesn't help at all...

 

  On 2/13/2018 at 1:07 AM, whosebrian said:

trick @ 3:50

haha xD get famous! Edited February 13, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

EDIT: NSFW Mike Clark

 

And this gem by OPN is in 120/4 to begin with (turns to 4/4 for the 'chorus')

Edited February 13, 2018 by IOS

  On 2/13/2018 at 1:29 AM, IOS said:

And this gem by OPN is in 120/4 to begin with (turns to 4/4 for the 'chorus')

Yeah, there's lots of throwing the listener off in that one. It's basically 4/4 with a weird turnaround every four bars, plus syncopated accents. Can probably be felt/transcribed differently, but I interpret it as a 1/downbeat starting a new four bar phrase every time the synth changes root note.

 

Intro:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

Verse:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Chorus:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Verse:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Chorus:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

  On 2/13/2018 at 10:14 AM, psn said:

 

Intro:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

Verse:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Chorus:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Verse:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/8

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 3/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

Chorus:

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4

 

 

Time signatures were just handed a whole new set of parameters.

sorry but this is the right time sig for the chorus of OPN

A=\frac12absinC, \fracsinAa=\fracsinBb=\fracsinCc
a2=b2+c2-2bccosA, a0=\fracℏ 2meke2
ΔE=RH(\frac1ni 2-\frac1nf 2), En=-RH(\frac1n2)=\frac-2.178×10-18n2joule
limn→∞((∑k=1n1k)−lnn), limx→∞x−alnx=0
e±3πi/4 , −12–√±i12–√
e±πi/3 , 12±i3–√2

Edited February 13, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

heh my bad, and I wrongly mentioned "120/4" from memory after doing a bit of counting some time ago.

 

For OPN's Returnal, if you set a 1/4 pulse to 136.31 bpm, the 'verse' (initial theme) recycles in 121 1/8th notes (or 60.5 1/4 notes); 'chorus' is in 4/4; transitioning from verse to chorus includes a single 2/4 bar.

drugs/drugs, drugs/drugs

drugs/drugs, drugs/drugs

drugs/drugs, drugs/drugs

drugs/drugs, drugs/drugs

To Cure a Weakling Child has a bit of a weird thing going on but I don't think I would have noticed it if I didn't consciously count it out. The track starts on the "3" but other than that it's very straightforward. I'm sure you could argue that it starts on the 1 but the bassline and the drums have enough emphasis to strongly suggest that the 1 is actually the 3.

 

The structure is kinda:

1 2 my 4

Feet 2 my 4

Arms 2 and 4

My 2 ears 4

1 2 3 4

And 2 3 4

Your 2 feet 4

1 2 3 4

 

If I studied music theory seriously I'd be able to give a better notation of that, sorry.

 

Anyway, a more interesting example of the concept of this whole thread is shown in the 'Xepha' section of this neat essay:

 

http://disis.music.vt.edu/eric/LyonPapers/AphexTwin/

 

Fingerbib could be confusing to a novice as it has a 6 bar (?) structure as opposed to an 8 bar structure.

Edited February 24, 2018 by drukqs

  On 2/24/2018 at 9:01 PM, cwmbrancity said:

???? so i'm gonna start counting on the first sound ???? wtf did i just watched lol, why did he first start counting on the first sound if the first sound is a snare? did he ever heard about anacrusis lol this is like dj mixing for dummies...

and then he said that just doesn't sound right to me, and then he counted it right? is this a troll video? i'm not even gonna comment on what he says about the theory behind the spiral and the edit... ??? on the 1, in this case the 2 ??? oh my this guy is trolling... this doesn't have nothing to do with vinyl, the same fx would happen with mp3 or cd if he doesn't know where a song's bar begin...

Edited February 24, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

@drukqs: Nice. If you don't mind me providing a slight correction:

  On 2/24/2018 at 6:36 AM, drukqs said:

1 2 my 4
Feet 2 my 4
Arms 2 and 4
My 2 ears 4
1 2 And 4
1 2 Your 4
feet 2 3 4
1 2 3 4

Edited February 24, 2018 by IOS

  On 2/24/2018 at 6:36 AM, drukqs said:

Fingerbib could be confusing to a novice as it has a 5 bar (!) structure as opposed to an 8 bar structure.

  On 2/24/2018 at 10:15 PM, IOS said:

 

@drukqs: Nice. If you don't mind me providing a slight correction:

  On 2/24/2018 at 6:36 AM, drukqs said:

1 2 my 4

Feet 2 my 4

Arms 2 and 4

My 2 ears 4

1 2 And 4

1 2 Your 4

feet 2 3 4

1 2 3 4

Oh damn, I think you're right. I'll have to have another listen.

4/4 that totally riddles your mind...

Edited February 24, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

How does one determine how many bars are in a structure?

  On 2/25/2018 at 12:12 AM, drukqs said:

How does one determine how many bars are in a structure?

well, you felt it, hence you said 6, you noticed something more, just count naturally 1, 2, 3, 4, and that is 1 bar most of the times, because sometimes what we feel naturally isn't quite correct, or we might perceive it differently... and like you said correctly, most of the times the number of bars is 2 or 4 or 8... in fingerbib it is not, you count:

• 1, 2, 3, 4 - 1 bar
• 1, 2, 3, 4 - 2 bars
• 1, 2, 3, 4 - 3 bars
• 1, 2, 3, 4 - 4 bars (a simple song repeats after this one but on fingerbib you count one extra bar)
• 1, 2, 3, 4 - 5 bars

Edited February 25, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

A couple that people have mentioned, Acrid Avid Jam Shred and Bone Machine, I've lost it before. I've momentarily done it on Reckoner by Radiohead. It's really weird for it to happen when you're listening to your own track, which has occurred with me. Like, way after I finished production and it had been online for a couple years, and come back to it. Not that it was a complex rhythm or anything, I just had the kick on the first half note, or the second note of 8/8. Tripped out trying to get my mind back in the right place. The person who mentioned aural vertigo or whatever in this thread was right on point.

omg guys I am listening to Jean-Michel Jarre - Oxygene, Pt 10 right now and I'm hearing it as the kick landing on the 2 and the snare landing on the 4.  I can't hear it any other way, even thought I know it's kick 1 snare 3.  Just hit the back button so it's started again, and now I hear the correct rhythm.  It's a whole other song.  The melody actually made a lot more sense the way I heard it originally.  It kind of bums me out knowing that if I made a track where the kick was deliberately on the 2 and the snare was deliberately on the 4, people would still hear it as 1 and 3 because that's the conventional way everyone's accustomed to hearing it.  Hmmmmm.... how could one go about creating a song that's deliberately kick 2 snare 4?  Is that even possible?  Oh shit NY resolution 2018 just happened.  

 

lol Jean-Michel Jarre - Oxygene, Pt 11 is now playing and I'm hearing the kick on 2 and 4 again.  WTF.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOBnXsRGSs

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPZQTeohHQQ

Edited February 25, 2018 by Zephyr_Nova

ahahaha Pt. 12 is playing now, and it's the same thing.  I guess the entire album is sequenced so that it's a seamless dance record, and at some point I got the the downbeat mixed up with the offbeat.  My brain finally made the switch as I was typing that last sentence.  Fucking finally, geez...

  On 2/25/2018 at 8:58 AM, Zephyr_Nova said:

ahahaha Pt. 12 is playing now, and it's the same thing.  I guess the entire album is sequenced so that it's a seamless dance record, and at some point I got the the downbeat mixed up with the offbeat.  My brain finally made the switch as I was typing that last sentence.  Fucking finally, geez...

one little trick is having something playing before the beat comes in, like, well, it's easy with an example, i think people posted some examples of this in this thread... it's when you have a melodie playing, like the melodie is playing 1/4 dotted and then when the beat comes in the kick is in 1/4... or, something playing at 2 and 4 before the beat comes in, or even in, and then the kick starts in 1 and 3...

or even, imagine 1/16 hits, you have something like a bassline or melodie or other hist from the drum like a hihat playing before the beat comes in, starting at 3, 7,11 and 15, and when the kick comes in the kick is in 1, 5, 9 and 13...

summing up, something playing before the beat but shifted in time by one or 2 crotchets/quarter notes...

on the link that drukqs posted there is a simple example of this, or all those police songs posted in the thread...

http://disis.music.vt.edu/eric/LyonPapers/AphexTwin/sfs/aphex_ex9.mp3

 

@3:05

i guess there's some more magic tricks out there...

Edited February 25, 2018 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON