Oneohtrix Point Never - Garden of Delete

  On 10/21/2015 at 10:07 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

the mastering sounds exactly the same on this new official preview track VS the leak

I thought the mastering on the leak was superb. I'd be surprised if the official version was any different.

Broke my oath and listened to it this morning. Shit's fire.

too much Linkin Park, not enough SDFK-mutant standard-child of rage

I thought this might grow on me, but listening to DLo's older stuff I realized that I really don't like this album as much. I don't hate it, but when compared to Rifts, Replica, and R+7 it just doesn't hold up. For me, at least. There are a few great moments, Ezra is pretty good, and so is Freaky Eyes. Overall, though, it just isn't my thing.

FLAC has leaked now. Gonna wait for the 24bit from Bleep. It's only another two weeks or so.

it's a transcode and it is not humanely possible to differentiate between 24 and 16 bit audio.

  On 10/25/2015 at 3:14 PM, eugene said:

it's a transcode and it is not humanely possible to differentiate between 24 and 16 bit audio.

Spoiler alert!

it's the piece of mind that comforts me tho

  On 10/25/2015 at 3:10 PM, fumi said:

FLAC has leaked now. Gonna wait for the 24bit from Bleep. It's only another two weeks or so.

why dont you waot till lopating go to your house to play it live LOL

Dank Lopatin and the Lush Nulls

Garden of Wololo

  On 10/26/2015 at 2:16 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 10/25/2015 at 3:14 PM, eugene said:

it's a transcode and it is not humanely possible to differentiate between 24 and 16 bit audio.

i thought flacs were usually 16bit anyway?

 

they can be anything really.

Aye, changed all my 24 bit wav stuff from warp to flacs and it happily uses that bit depth.

Ps remember that leak talk is a no no on this place, encourages naughties to go hunting!

No worries man, know you're not being dickish :) It's just a bit of a balancing act, talking about the leak (eg the earlier mastering worries) is OK I reckon but just mentioning it *has* leaked (like the flac mention from fumi on the page before) is when it's a little *too* encouraging for people to hunt it out.

  On 10/25/2015 at 3:14 PM, eugene said:

it's a transcode and it is not humanely possible to differentiate between 24 and 16 bit audio.

not humanely possible, you mean the volume levels would need to be so high as to cause hearing loss?

I just don't understand why most 24bit releases are not 'limiter-free'.

  On 10/26/2015 at 5:25 PM, Nil said:

I just don't understand why most 24bit releases are not 'limiter-free'.

Because limiters have a purpose and are used in mixing anyway.

Let's agree to disagree then.

I can't help thinking that brickwall-limiting is irrelevant 99% of the time at mixing stage, and should happen (if needed/wanted) at mastering stage. Same goes for clipping, or any volume maximazing process to make the audio sound loud(er).

If you want to sound 'competitive' (still talking about loudness) there are tons of things to do which are more effective than using whatever brickwall-limiter you fancy.

Besides, making things sound loud when the targeted format is a 24bit lossless file (compressed or not) is just absurd IMO: 144dB of dynamic range FFS :)

Using limiters à la 1176 is a whole different story though.

My $.02

  On 10/25/2015 at 5:13 PM, xxx said:

Lopating

lel

  On 10/26/2015 at 7:21 PM, Nil said:

Let's agree to disagree then.

I can't help thinking that brickwall-limiting is irrelevant 99% of the time at mixing stage, and should happen (if needed/wanted) at mastering stage. Same goes for clipping, or any volume maximazing process to make the audio sound loud(er).

If you want to sound 'competitive' (still talking about loudness) there are tons of things to do which are more effective than using whatever brickwall-limiter you fancy.

Besides, making things sound loud when the targeted format is a 24bit lossless file (compressed or not) is just absurd IMO: 144dB of dynamic range FFS :)

Using limiters à la 1176 is a whole different story though.

My $.02

Oh dear, so you think limiters and clipping are used for loudness only? I don't wonder you are against them...

EDIT:

  On 10/26/2015 at 7:21 PM, Nil said:

Using limiters à la 1176 is a whole different story though.

My $.02

A mindset that does not surprise me.

Please do share your knowledge. Not being sarcastic here.

Ps: I don't make a fetish of of gear. I mentioned 1176 as an exemple (among others) of those analogue limiters that won't (and can't) behave like brickwall-limiters.

  On 10/26/2015 at 7:25 PM, Nil said:

Please do share your knowledge. Not being sarcastic here.

Some people enjoy that "vacuum" sounds, some people are very sensitive to peaks (me) and I hate when they aren't balanced (me). Some peaks/transients are so quick that compressors cannot help. Limiters can create interesting colours, interesting effects, interesting sounds. Aggressive compression (almost to the point of limiting) is often needed for creating an illusion of space without using delays and reverbs too much (or at all). Limiters and clipping can create tasteful distortion (subjective, some people hate clipping). An experienced listener/producer can hear a positive difference in emotion of a song that was limited with a tasteful artist's vision.

Of course, limiting (and every single tool in audio production world) can be bad when it's bad.

But it is just a tool that can be used in many ways. I use limiters regularly if I want that feel.

"Big dynamic range/prominent peaks" != "automatically superior".

Just one more note:

As you know, limiters influence the envelope of a sound. Just an extreme example:

A synth tone without a sharp starting peak = a pad, strings etc.

A synth tone with a sharp starting peak = a hammer-action instrument, a funky bass, a percussion hit etc.

It should be evident from the example how big influence can limiters/compression/transient designers/clipping have on a final emotion of sound.

You can also, for example, create a very dynamic beats by just manipulating drums with limiters and compressors without changing the actual samples that much.

I cannot imagine not having limiters, especially in sound-design and dynamics-manipulation scenarios.

EDIT:

The final emotion you get from the music is the only thing that matters.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. Not discussing your points, I agree with most. I wouldn't use a brickwall-limiter in those scenario though. And, based on my experience and knowledge, that's the kind of processor I'll avoid whenever I can. As you said, it's just a tool though.

Whatever works for you, whatever serves the tunes to the ears of their makers.

Once again I've been too concise (happens to me all the time). I was just talking about that final, utilitarian (I can't insist enough on that), pre-dithering process at high bit-depth that, to me, is pointless and absurd.

Creative uses are a whole different story. To me at least.

I happen be genuinely curious (and more and more educated) when it comes to DSP and sound-processing (still learning AND unlearning a lot). I am also a beta-tester for a few compagnies I highly value the products and visions, and am lucky to talk directly with the developers about those topics (brickwall-limiting being one of those). So it's always interesting to read other takes on those stuffs.

Sorry for the off-topic.

Depends on the vision and music. No way of finishing the final process one way that suits all music.

But I agree, Dynamic processors are key to many different styles of music to give many results and can be used in creative ways within the whole process. There is a lot of electronic music that sounds flat and lifeless and could do with various perking in various stages to give some oomph. of course, in my opinion.