Germany NYE attacks

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:12 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:26 PM, Audioblysk said:

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

 

 

 

When you make vast sweeping criticisms of Islam, that fail to take into account how many of the leaders of Islam have condemned the acts of the extremists who claim to represent Islam, it's not that you don't like dark-skinned people - it's that you're ignoring reality and placing your own veil over top of the reality.

Are there Muslims that do heinous shit? Yes.

Does that mean the modern interpretation of Islam is fundamentally flawed (I mean beyond the belief common to all religions that a sky person is judging you)? No. It means some Muslims do heinous shit. Some Christians do heinous shit too. Some Buddhists do heinous shit too.

 

Usagi has the right idea - keep shouting about the clash of civilizations and you will make it a reality. It's the Thomas principle.

 

have a look at Islamic countries. nobody seem to make hate comments, simply state facts.

All you do is state assumption that have been denied. if only you informed yourself.

What Jev says is been repeated all over the net in forums. I suggest you develop a little bit more your research on the points he raise and stop pretending you know it all

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:30 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:37 PM, usagi said:

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

 

+1

but I think usagi and chen do not really want to inform themselves on the problem europe face and they pretend we are living in fantasy/paranoid state. how ironic!

Gonna print this topic and show it to all my musulmanz

p.s. here's the whole enchilada

I feel like Chunky would've done some amazing posts in this thread :(

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:30 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:37 PM, usagi said:

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

 

no. I work in stats and know exactly how they can be manipulated and/or wilfully misinterpreted. and I rely on my first-hand experiences and interaction with this community - ongoing, I might add - more than a cut-and-dried Pew paper written by someone removed from the actual situation.

the final word on this subject comes from one of Islam's core texts:

  Quote

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “It is necessary upon a Muslim to listen to and obey the ruler, as long as one is not ordered to carry out a sin. If he is commanded to commit a sin, then there is no adherence and obedience.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2796 & Sunan Tirmidhi)

this hadith does not make a distinction between whether the ruler is a Muslim or a non-Muslim, therefore it is interpreted as meaning "obey the laws of the land provided they do not compel you to sin" by the majority of Muslims. this is why, to reiterate, the only Muslims pushing for sharia implementation in Western countries are extremist idiots who are either actively countered or just plain ignored by other Muslims, mostly ordinary people just trying to live their lives and get along.

instead of telling people to follow some inconclusive/exploitable stats, you lot need to stop reading papers and go outside and talk to some people sometime.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:10 AM, Jev said:

 

 

You know, there is not much needed from the science to completely end this debate:

 

- a theory of absence of free will

- altruism as a mere evolutionary tactics for human species to survive

- an absence of morality (because everything is just practical even if you think you do stuff because of moral reasons)

- genetics shaping human behaviour since birth (blind neuroplasticity which is hard to manage the older one is) -> non-sense traditions, customs, dogmatism

- a genetically based religiosity/superstitiousness

- a completely natural xenophobic behaviour needed to survive

- genetically determined intelligence and (in)sanity etc.

- a hard-to-manage (and occasionally deniable) instinct to survive (as yourself or through offspring) as the most basic and selfish motivation of all humans

- etc.

 

 

I suggest few good dose of breakthrough of dmt to show you how little science know about <<reality>>.

Theory of absence of free will: please show me that theory. that should be funny at least.

^^ fucking lol

That could be a meme.

yea fuck them scientists with their phd, ask ME bout life I tripped ballz once

there's science, and then there's science!

edit: and then there's Scientist, who is never in question.

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:03 AM, Ayya Khema said:

I suggest few good dose of breakthrough of dmt to show you how little science know about <<reality>>.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:02 AM, chenGOD said:

Where are you getting your 90% illiteracy rate from? Syria and Iraq had good education systems - literacy rates were very high in those countries. Afghanistan yes not so much, hardly surprising since they've been essentially fighting various foreign powers since the 1970s.

First of all, I said before that I am not sure if it is truly like that. I double-checked and it seems it is a bit more complicated (luckily):

- 20% of refugees/immigrants in Germany are illiterate (cannot read/write) http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany-idUKKCN0R21DG20150902

- 65% of refugees "65 percent of Syrian refugees fail to meet international standards on basic reading and writing skills" http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/08/65-percent-of-syrian-refugees-cant-read-and-write-join-workforce/

- 80% are unqualified (which some sources translated as illiterate because you can have many forms of illiteracy - computer illiteracy etc.) https://www.rt.com/news/320044-asylum-seekers-germany-education/

Feel free to refute those sources or the info in general. I would love refugees to be easier to work with than tha

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:02 AM, chenGOD said:

 

Strong conservative family values are practiced worldwide, not restricted to immigrants nor Muslims.

True. But it doesn't make the problem any less serious. A Muslim family has different traditions than a catholic or an atheist family.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:02 AM, chenGOD said:

 

Strong conservative family values are practiced worldwide, not restricted to immigrants nor Muslims. Parallel societies tend to exist in the first generation and integration takes place over a couple of generations. Even if the family reunions completely take place, pushing up the numbers eventually to 14 million, that's 2.7% of Europe's population. What kind of invasion is that? And that's assuming there are no outflows. Are you so insecure in the superiority of "Western" cultural institutions that you think a 3% increase will collapse them completely?

You sound like the Australian PM in the early part of last century, decrying Asian immigration - when the Asian population of Australia at the time was less than 1%. Of course now Australia is ruled by the Chinese Communist Party. If only they would have listened!!

You have to count those percents for individual states in EU and count with the fertility rates which you have omitted. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

I believe you don't have to have a majority of population in order to greatly influence the society.

Your argument is basically somehow valid only if you care about your own generation and don't care about the future.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:02 AM, chenGOD said:

 

I can't take your arguments seriously, because you used Canada in your argument against multiculturalism. You do know multiculturalism is enshrined in our constitution right?

Since I live in a multicultural society, and a very multicultural city - I can perhaps tell you about people's behaviour in the context of multiculturalism. We enjoy good food from all around the world, a diverse range of arts and culture, an increased appreciation of the world around us.

In practice Canada has quite strict and discriminating immigration policies. You have to get enough points in order to qualify for permanent living in Canada. Similarly to Switzerland you carefully select those who can stay and you give them strict conditions which they have to accept. My relatives (highly skilled and well educated Europeans) had to wait for at least 2 years (dunno exactly if it took longer) before they were accepted to Canada. Your policy seems open because you accept quite big numbers (if we disregard the recent laughable 15 000 Syrian refugees) but in reality it is quite tough to be accepted to Canada. You have to have the right age, the right education, the right profession, etc. Also if you check the stats you can see that Muslims (and Middle East) are in very low numbers. Most of the immigrants are from China and from India.

If Germany adopted such selective immigration model it would be criticized for inhumane behaviour.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:02 AM, chenGOD said:

 

Isolationist, nationalist tendencies played a large role in leading to World Wars 1 and 2. Increased interactions and engagement on all levels (political, business, cultural, personal) lead to further understanding among different peoples, and with understanding comes less fear. What's truly stunning is people's desires to go back to the "good old days" of isolation and exclusion. I get it, you're scared, the world is changing slightly, you might have to confront some ideas that are different from your own. But don't let that make you throw rationality out the window. Muslims are not going to rape you and burn your house down.

World Wars were caused by politicians and manipulated masses of cannon fodder. World War 2 war especially was economical (Jews and others were just a sick extension of that). Multiculturalism cannot prevent people from trying to get power and resources.

Also, nobody talks about isolation here (at least I am not).

The true test of multiculturalism would be an unstable, poor country with multiple very different cultures. We all knows how this works when people have to pick their sides because of whatever...

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:19 AM, triachus said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:03 AM, Ayya Khema said:

I suggest few good dose of breakthrough of dmt to show you how little science know about <<reality>>.

 

*looks at green dude with dog growing out of him*

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:03 AM, Ayya Khema said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:10 AM, Jev said:

 

 

You know, there is not much needed from the science to completely end this debate:

 

- a theory of absence of free will

- altruism as a mere evolutionary tactics for human species to survive

- an absence of morality (because everything is just practical even if you think you do stuff because of moral reasons)

- genetics shaping human behaviour since birth (blind neuroplasticity which is hard to manage the older one is) -> non-sense traditions, customs, dogmatism

- a genetically based religiosity/superstitiousness

- a completely natural xenophobic behaviour needed to survive

- genetically determined intelligence and (in)sanity etc.

- a hard-to-manage (and occasionally deniable) instinct to survive (as yourself or through offspring) as the most basic and selfish motivation of all humans

- etc.

 

 

I suggest few good dose of breakthrough of dmt to show you how little science know about <<reality>>.

Theory of absence of free will: please show me that theory. that should be funny at least.

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110831/full/477023a.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

There is a lots of articles and talking about this so feel free to google.

Also, if you are religious I am afraid there is no point at having discussion on this topic.

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:26 AM, Jev said:

In practice Canada has quite strict and discriminating immigration policies. You have to get enough points in order to qualify for permanent living in Canada. Similarly to Switzerland you carefully select those who can stay and you give them strict conditions which they have to accept. My relatives (highly skilled and well educated Europeans) had to wait for at least 2 years (dunno exactly if it took longer) before they were accepted to Canada. Your policy seems open because you accept quite big numbers (if we disregard the recent laughable 15 000 Syrian refugees) but in reality it is quite tough to be accepted to Canada. You have to have the right age, the right education, the right profession, etc. Also if you check the stats you can see that Muslims (and Middle East) are in very low numbers. Most of the immigrants are from China and from India.

 

If Germany adopted such selective immigration model it would be criticized for inhumane behaviour.

I don't think so. if they can explain it in the context of resources/capacity, it can be justified. some kind of selective process is necessary. like I said in an earlier post, taking on more than you can manage creates a potentially dangerous situation. but at the same time there are special circumstances around war refugees. it's complicated. people like us who are not in charge (thank fuck) of the situation can't really say, because we don't have all the information at hand or the skills to manage the problem.

as an aside, Toronto is one of the best examples of working multiculturalism I think of.

Usagi, it must be worrisome knowing that tens of millions of Muslims (see Pew poll) think you should be killed for leaving Islam, no?

(I saw this as a blaspheming atheist LGBT person who would be killed ten times over in a Sharia-run country...)

oh shit, the dreaded Harrisman. this thread is about to get all kinds of wacko. I've said what I needed to say, I'm out.

edit: it doesn't fucking worry me at all, I live in a suburb full of Muslims and some of them know I'm out. my parents know I'm out. when I go overseas to Pakistan later this year, all my relatives and family friends will know I'm out, if they don't already. *forks the sign of the devil at Limpy as he departs*

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:44 AM, usagi said:

oh shit, the dreaded Harrisman. this thread is about to get all kinds of wacko. I've said what I needed to say, I'm out.

Usagi, let's me and you go to any Sharia-run country and see how long we can live:

I'll tell them I'm a bisexual atheist and you can tell them you left Islam.

Since Islam is as peaceful and liberal as you suggest,

(to say nothing of your defense of Sharia)

I'm sure we'll be fine..

C'mon...put your money where your mouth is.

Sure we'll be murdered, but it will have nothing to do with Islam...

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:44 AM, usagi said:

 

 

edit: it doesn't fucking worry me at all, I live in a suburb full of Muslims and some of them know I'm out. my parents know I'm out. when I go overseas to Pakistan later this year, all my relatives and family friends will know I'm out, if they don't already. *forks the sign of the devil at Limpy as he departs*

well anyhow

I wish you safe travels

and congrats on leaving

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:02 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:30 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:37 PM, usagi said:

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

 

 

no. I work in stats and know exactly how they can be manipulated and/or wilfully misinterpreted. and I rely on my first-hand experiences and interaction with this community - ongoing, I might add - more than a cut-and-dried Pew paper written by someone removed from the actual situation.

 

the final word on this subject comes from one of Islam's core texts:

 

  Quote

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “It is necessary upon a Muslim to listen to and obey the ruler, as long as one is not ordered to carry out a sin. If he is commanded to commit a sin, then there is no adherence and obedience.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2796 & Sunan Tirmidhi)

 

this hadith does not make a distinction between whether the ruler is a Muslim or a non-Muslim, therefore it is interpreted as meaning "obey the laws of the land provided they do not compel you to sin" by the majority of Muslims. this is why, to reiterate, the only Muslims pushing for sharia implementation in Western countries are extremist idiots who are either actively countered or just plain ignored by other Muslims, mostly ordinary people just trying to live their lives and get along.

 

instead of telling people to follow some inconclusive/exploitable stats, you lot need to stop reading papers and go outside and talk to some people sometime.

 

lol

Why do you work in stats if they are so useless to us?

Don't start with religious texts here as nobody really understands them. Even the biggest scholars keep arguing about their meaning (endless discussions on Memri TV). Some of them even completely denies that hadiths are relevant religious texts. You can explain the texts as you please. It changes nothing about the stats and thinking of regular Muslims. There is so much contradictions in Islam it is laughable.

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:46 AM, Ayya Khema said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:12 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:26 PM, Audioblysk said:

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

 

 

 

When you make vast sweeping criticisms of Islam, that fail to take into account how many of the leaders of Islam have condemned the acts of the extremists who claim to represent Islam, it's not that you don't like dark-skinned people - it's that you're ignoring reality and placing your own veil over top of the reality.

Are there Muslims that do heinous shit? Yes.

Does that mean the modern interpretation of Islam is fundamentally flawed (I mean beyond the belief common to all religions that a sky person is judging you)? No. It means some Muslims do heinous shit. Some Christians do heinous shit too. Some Buddhists do heinous shit too.

 

Usagi has the right idea - keep shouting about the clash of civilizations and you will make it a reality. It's the Thomas principle.

 

have a look at Islamic countries. nobody seem to make hate comments, simply state facts.

All you do is state assumption that have been denied. if only you informed yourself.

What Jev says is been repeated all over the net in forums. I suggest you develop a little bit more your research on the points he raise and stop pretending you know it all

 

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:30 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:37 PM, usagi said:

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

 

+1

but I think usagi and chen do not really want to inform themselves on the problem europe face and they pretend we are living in fantasy/paranoid state. how ironic!

 

I've been to Islamic countries - have you?

Lol so now you want to use statistics?

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:48 AM, LimpyLoo said:

p.s. here's the whole enchilada

I've read the report. I've never tried to dismiss it or make it irrelevant, it's very interesting for a number of reasons. Mostly for how it shows that there is a wide range of beliefs among Muslims. It's also very interesting to see the concern regarding extremism.

And yes I agree that 0% for both those issues would be great numbers. I would be very intrigued to get a sense of how many actual stonings are carried out - I would think given the sensationalism that arises around these events when they do happen indicates that they are rare. A brief glimpse at wikipedia (I know I know, but it's a start) shows that there is often a large public outcry (domestic and international) when these cases arise, and sometimes that is enough to overturn any sentence of stoning. So it seems that human rights pressure does work.

I'd also like to see the death penalty eliminated from the American penal system (50-60% of Americans are in favour of the death penalty depending on the poll used). I'm sure you would too. But I never see you posting articles about that. Well, it's ok, your actions are all predetermined anyways.

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:41 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:03 AM, Ayya Khema said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:10 AM, Jev said:

 

 

You know, there is not much needed from the science to completely end this debate:

 

- a theory of absence of free will

- altruism as a mere evolutionary tactics for human species to survive

- an absence of morality (because everything is just practical even if you think you do stuff because of moral reasons)

- genetics shaping human behaviour since birth (blind neuroplasticity which is hard to manage the older one is) -> non-sense traditions, customs, dogmatism

- a genetically based religiosity/superstitiousness

- a completely natural xenophobic behaviour needed to survive

- genetically determined intelligence and (in)sanity etc.

- a hard-to-manage (and occasionally deniable) instinct to survive (as yourself or through offspring) as the most basic and selfish motivation of all humans

- etc.

 

 

I suggest few good dose of breakthrough of dmt to show you how little science know about <<reality>>.

Theory of absence of free will: please show me that theory. that should be funny at least.

 

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110831/full/477023a.html

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

 

There is a lots of articles and talking about this so feel free to google.

 

Also, if you are religious I am afraid there is no point at having discussion on this topic.

 

and you believe all that without any crititcs? Consciousness is only byproduct of the brain?

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:53 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:46 AM, Ayya Khema said:

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:12 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:46 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:26 PM, Audioblysk said:

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

 

 

 

When you make vast sweeping criticisms of Islam, that fail to take into account how many of the leaders of Islam have condemned the acts of the extremists who claim to represent Islam, it's not that you don't like dark-skinned people - it's that you're ignoring reality and placing your own veil over top of the reality.

Are there Muslims that do heinous shit? Yes.

Does that mean the modern interpretation of Islam is fundamentally flawed (I mean beyond the belief common to all religions that a sky person is judging you)? No. It means some Muslims do heinous shit. Some Christians do heinous shit too. Some Buddhists do heinous shit too.

 

Usagi has the right idea - keep shouting about the clash of civilizations and you will make it a reality. It's the Thomas principle.

 

have a look at Islamic countries. nobody seem to make hate comments, simply state facts.

All you do is state assumption that have been denied. if only you informed yourself.

What Jev says is been repeated all over the net in forums. I suggest you develop a little bit more your research on the points he raise and stop pretending you know it all

 

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:30 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/20/2016 at 11:37 PM, usagi said:

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

 

+1

but I think usagi and chen do not really want to inform themselves on the problem europe face and they pretend we are living in fantasy/paranoid state. how ironic!

 

I've been to Islamic countries - have you?

 

Lol so now you want to use statistics?

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:48 AM, LimpyLoo said:

p.s. here's the whole enchilada

 

I've read the report. I've never tried to dismiss it or make it irrelevant, it's very interesting for a number of reasons. Mostly for how it shows that there is a wide range of beliefs among Muslims. It's also very interesting to see the concern regarding extremism.

 

And yes I agree that 0% for both those issues would be great numbers. I would be very intrigued to get a sense of how many actual stonings are carried out - I would think given the sensationalism that arises around these events when they do happen indicates that they are rare. A brief glimpse at wikipedia (I know I know, but it's a start) shows that there is often a large public outcry (domestic and international) when these cases arise, and sometimes that is enough to overturn any sentence of stoning. So it seems that human rights pressure does work.

 

I'd also like to see the death penalty eliminated from the American penal system (50-60% of Americans are in favour of the death penalty depending on the poll used). I'm sure you would too. But I never see you posting articles about that. Well, it's ok, your actions are all predetermined anyways.

 

America is no better, of course.

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:53 AM, chenGOD said:

 

 

  On 1/21/2016 at 12:48 AM, LimpyLoo said:

p.s. here's the whole enchilada

 

I've read the report. I've never tried to dismiss it or make it irrelevant, it's very interesting for a number of reasons. Mostly for how it shows that there is a wide range of beliefs among Muslims. It's also very interesting to see the concern regarding extremism.

 

And yes I agree that 0% for both those issues would be great numbers. I would be very intrigued to get a sense of how many actual stonings are carried out - I would think given the sensationalism that arises around these events when they do happen indicates that they are rare. A brief glimpse at wikipedia (I know I know, but it's a start) shows that there is often a large public outcry (domestic and international) when these cases arise, and sometimes that is enough to overturn any sentence of stoning. So it seems that human rights pressure does work.

 

I'd also like to see the death penalty eliminated from the American penal system (50-60% of Americans are in favour of the death penalty depending on the poll used). I'm sure you would too. But I never see you posting articles about that. Well, it's ok, your actions are all predetermined anyways.

 

I guess we agree on this stuff

and yeah i'm anti-death penalty...

i mean, for starters, there shouldn't even be a DEBATE about the death penalty until we have a perfect justice system (e.g. mind-reading machines)

where innocent people aren't being executed

and then even then, i think the debate should end in "no death penalty"

  On 1/21/2016 at 1:54 AM, Ayya Khema said:

 

and you believe all that without any crititcs? Consciousness is only byproduct of the brain?

I consider the question to be not clearly answered yet. There are some problems on quantum level that has to be explained and brain-testing methods improved. But it, unfortunately, gives a perfect sense indeed. There is many arguments that it really works like that but we will have to wait and see it confirmed in the future.

Personally, I would love it to be false because I can't really live with that.