Dune

I saw Dune for a 2nd time on Saturday. The the weight of expectation/anticipation was removed, so I found myself able to relax and enjoy. The things I had found a little off initially - editing/pacing for Caladan sequence in particular - didn't bother me too much this time. I love this film, and will take the mumbling, Paul being a mopy dick (I do think Chalamet did a great job) the removal of some plots/characters....

It's been said a few times, the loudness. This was a problem. I was in a different cinema, and still felt like my ear drums were being assaulted. I still dislike the lion king track, but overall I love the soundtrack and sound design. 

  On 10/29/2021 at 12:51 AM, auxien said:

yeah def, i think maybe my issue is that she was so outwardly showing all of that. a Bene Gesserit like her (even with her having been somewhat shunned by the order) would essentially never do so even under duress, unless of course showing emotions outwardly benefitted the situation or something. their insane amounts of self control is what makes them so cool, and she was not showing that much at all in the film. but again, i really liked her performance (thanks for catching my dumb name mixup there lol).

I retract my previous comment. I agree. Lady Jessica is portrayed far too emotionally for a Bene Gesserit. Ferguson did a good job, but they really went to 11 with Jessica's emotional control, or lack thereof.  

In other - tangentially connected - news. Taika Waititi set to direct The Incal... 

https://movieweb.com/the-incal-taika-waititi-directing/

Just watched this, finally. 

Sound was great because I was in an old converted barn and not an IMAX, volume was fine. A few lines were mumbled but generally everything very clear. Space bagpipes was weird bit every other part of the soundtrack seemed to fit (especially when Paul uses his voice, so cool).

Pacing overall was excellent, it didn't feel like it overstayed it's welcome. Maybe ever so slightly in the last 20 mins but that was mainly my back giving me grief in the seat. Shield tech looked awesome.  A few nice moments of comedy with Duncan. 

Saw other comments here about the dark brooding nature of the film and the long stares into space ... Well, spot on.  It's basically genocide in space so I don't see how you can spin that in a nice way. Obviously part 2 is set up nicely for the rise of Muadib and I'm very glad it was green lit. 

this was still really good the second time at home on a tv with just standard TV speakers. i think the IMAX screen ratio was better but obv most modern tvs aren't designed for that.

sound definitely didn't hit as hard...but i still think the music worked really well for basically everything in the film, but i could make a few small notes if i was asked by Villeneuve or Zimmer, i'm waiting to hear back from them about that. i'd tried listening to a few of the soundtrack pieces from this on YT after i watched the film the first time but they didn't do that much for me like that...but within the context of the film, which is of course why the soundtrack exists, the music works really well. i wonder if y'all complaining about the music in the film are talking about actually in the context of the movie or when listening to the released separate pieces. (Squee you just hate it that's fine idc lol)

the film's structure stood out as a little odd to me this time. the sorta in medias res feeling of the first third, big complex action and plot happenings of the second third, then the hiding/hunted smaller darker dealing with repercussions of the final third all sorta feels odd for a film. not bad, and obv follows the original story well and i do think it works, but it's kinda strange for a movie of this size and scope to not follow very standard playbooks. i think that's a good thing.

i really think an extra 20 minutes or so of deleted scenes put back in for a director's cut or whatever would work super well, my earlier thoughts stand on wanting a bit more of the world and some characters, many are just introduced in one scene and then killed in their second or third appearance. kinda silly. the pacing feels like it could use a bit more of that (in the first 2/3rds of the film, i'm pretty sure the final third is aaaaalmost dragging at moments like Soloman mentioned ^)

I wonder if a Directors Cut would show more of Mapes and Jessica. They introduce her, some other stuff happens, then she dies. 

yeah, i think Mapes might be the most obvious casualty of editing, but this time i noticed even characters like Gurney are sorta glossed over...Brolin got like 3rd or 4th billing at the end credits i'm pretty sure, but he had like....4-5 scenes? maybe he was standing around in a couple more? maybe spoke 20 sentences or so the film, at most.

plus the Harkonnen plans stuff could've been played up a bit more perhaps, that also felt a little 'we're told about it in one scene then a few scenes later it just happens' with maybe some reasoning or politics behind things re: the emporer etc....honestly not that i'm typing that i think maybe that was severely lacking in the film, the politics are spoken about in exposition but they're rarely shown or felt. and the politics of it all are of course a huge part of the book.

i'm nitpicking and just blabbering but yeah, editing was maybe a touch too harsh in the first half. 

edit:

I watched one of those "15 EASTRE EGGS U M1SSED IN DUNE LOL" YouTube videos and it totally sucked ass - the guy had obviously one watched the film once (like me) and picked up on totally obvious stuff that is easy to spot (like me).

This however is a fair bit more interesting and written by someone who knows the source material:

https://medium.com/fan-fare/5-things-you-probably-missed-in-dune-2021-577028e05f3e

IMAX viewing tonight, with a Q&A session with Denis after. 

  On 11/21/2021 at 1:51 PM, auxien said:

yeah, i think Mapes might be the most obvious casualty of editing, but this time i noticed even characters like Gurney are sorta glossed over...Brolin got like 3rd or 4th billing at the end credits i'm pretty sure, but he had like....4-5 scenes? maybe he was standing around in a couple more? maybe spoke 20 sentences or so the film, at most.

plus the Harkonnen plans stuff could've been played up a bit more perhaps, that also felt a little 'we're told about it in one scene then a few scenes later it just happens' with maybe some reasoning or politics behind things re: the emporer etc....honestly not that i'm typing that i think maybe that was severely lacking in the film, the politics are spoken about in exposition but they're rarely shown or felt. and the politics of it all are of course a huge part of the book.

i'm nitpicking and just blabbering but yeah, editing was maybe a touch too harsh in the first half. 

Expand  

I'll tell him to sign up to WATMM and get posting some answers  I'm sure the cuts will come up during the session. 

Saw it last week.

The thing that i loved the most about it is how the violence and political conflict felt real. Violence felt violent. Combat felt raw and kills felt like murders. The genocide and war scenes dont feel detached, they feel like actual war zones. Denis experience really shows here.

And the real evil guys felt like real evil guys, like hannibal lecter level psychopaths not just guys dressed in black with a pout. (Kylo Ren im looking at you) Always said i would love a Sci-Fi in which the antagonists felt actually menacing and the combat felt actually violent and this is pretty much it.

LOVE the slow pace, ominous vibe of the whole thing and the fact that everyone is more or less an ambivalent character and you never quite know who is gonna kill who. Some proper ancient tragedy vibes.

Very impressive music and sound work in there. The weird percussion track and the abstract vocals especially. The bagpipe was strange but still nice.

Some CGI felt a little bit off i must say.

Felt the beginning had sloppy rhythm tho but after 20 minutes or so Denis finds his pace and the movie finds its voice. I hated the comedic relief bits, completely unnecessary.

On the whole it has some of the flaws of any american blockbuster but it stays a minor aspect of the film and in the end it is a very impressive space epic with some real psychological impact and a powerful atmosphere.

I think the movie should have been 4 hours tho.

I know its not commercially viable but its too short. I have not even read the book but it shows material has been cut. There is a feel of some things being rushed out or left out even with the chosen pace. I guess it is somehow inevitable with movie adaptation.

Blade Runner sequel was probably a better movie on the whole than Dune tho. The pulse and build up was near perfect in that one.

But Dune has an awesome rawness at times.

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:36 PM, thefxbip said:

Saw it last week.

The thing that i loved the most about it is how the violence and political conflict felt real. Violence felt violent. Combat felt raw and kills felt like murders. The genocide and war scenes dont feel detached, they feel like actual war zones. Denis experience really shows here.

And the real evil guys felt like real evil guys, like hannibal lecter level psychopaths not just guys dressed in black with a pout. (Kylo Ren im looking at you) Always said i would love a Sci-Fi in which the antagonists felt actually menacing and the combat felt actually violent and this is pretty much it.

Expand  

aka not The A Team.

IMAX was amazing, deafening at times, but an amazing experience. I'm in love with this film, warts and all. 

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:46 PM, thefxbip said:

I think the movie should have been 4 hours tho.

I know its not commercially viable but its too short. I have not even read the book but it shows material has been cut. There is a feel of some things being rushed out or left out even with the chosen pace. I guess it is somehow inevitable with movie adaptation.

I'd be happy with 4 hours for part, but that would never work commercially as you say. I have high hopes for part 2, I think if they shift the focus a little, and look at the impact of Paul on Fremen through the eyes of Chani - something he said in interviews, and reiterated during the Q&A - we might get to see a little more, and something different. 

The Q&A session at the end was only around 20 mins, questions weren't opened to the floor, but they covered the below:

Filming & Part 2: Villneuve was intending to film back to back. He was glad they didn't attempt this, and waiting for the audience reaction was a better path to take. He had his first pre-prod meeting on Monday, after the figures from Sunday came in, to begin work on part 2.

The gap in filming will afford them the opportunity to make improvements. Filming in the desert was difficult. When in Abu Dhabi, they were working in shifts from 3 till 8:30, before the Sun was fully up, and then back home to sleep until sun down. He said the whole process of filming Dune was like returning to film school. 

The Music: Villeneuve approached Zimmer at the end of filming Blade Runner 2049, and asked him if he was familiar with the book - he was, it's one of his favourites - so his involvement was there from the off. Apparently Zimmer never watched the previous attempts at Dune, as he wanted to come creating the music fresh. Villneuve was full of high praise, saying that Zimmer is a bonafide genius. For the development, Zimmer was off to "home depot" experimenting, buying pipes, cutting things up and trying to create new wind instruments.

The Cast: Villneuve said that (and I paraphrase) "If you think I got the film wrong, made a mistake, there's one think I didn't fuck up, and that's the casting". The gom jabbar sequence was one of the first things they filled, and Villeneuve said he knew he'd made the right choice with Timothée - his first and only choice for Paul - and that he was "dancing around the camera like a rabbit" 

@Shimon_Shimonwow look at that screen size, sounds like you had a great evening....

@Soloman Tump Great seats and view. I think the last IMAX film was a Star Wars one, not sure, it was that memorable . The barn where you saw Dune, do they do films there regularly? I love locations like that. 

  On 11/22/2021 at 2:59 PM, thefxbip said:

Blade Runner sequel was probably a better movie on the whole than Dune tho. The pulse and build up was near perfect in that one.

you might be right on that, but that was a complete story. Dune is only Dune Part One.

  On 11/23/2021 at 11:55 AM, Shimon_Shimon said:

IMAX was amazing, deafening at times, but an amazing experience. I'm in love with this film, warts and all. 

I'd be happy with 4 hours for part, but that would never work commercially as you say. I have high hopes for part 2, I think if they shift the focus a little, and look at the impact of Paul on Fremen through the eyes of Chani - something he said in interviews, and reiterated during the Q&A - we might get to see a little more, and something different. 

The Q&A session at the end was only around 20 mins, questions weren't opened to the floor, but they covered the below:

Filming & Part 2: Villneuve was intending to film back to back. He was glad they didn't attempt this, and waiting for the audience reaction was a better path to take. He had his first pre-prod meeting on Monday, after the figures from Sunday came in, to begin work on part 2.

The gap in filming will afford them the opportunity to make improvements. Filming in the desert was difficult. When in Abu Dhabi, they were working in shifts from 3 till 8:30, before the Sun was fully up, and then back home to sleep until sun down. He said the whole process of filming Dune was like returning to film school. 

The Music: Villeneuve approached Zimmer at the end of filming Blade Runner 2049, and asked him if he was familiar with the book - he was, it's one of his favourites - so his involvement was there from the off. Apparently Zimmer never watched the previous attempts at Dune, as he wanted to come creating the music fresh. Villneuve was full of high praise, saying that Zimmer is a bonafide genius. For the development, Zimmer was off to "home depot" experimenting, buying pipes, cutting things up and trying to create new wind instruments.

The Cast: Villneuve said that (and I paraphrase) "If you think I got the film wrong, made a mistake, there's one think I didn't fuck up, and that's the casting". The gom jabbar sequence was one of the first things they filled, and Villeneuve said he knew he'd made the right choice with Timothée - his first and only choice for Paul - and that he was "dancing around the camera like a rabbit" 

Expand  

IMAX definitely was cool for this, anyone who has the opportunity/ability to catch it as such should imo.

kinda sucks the Q & A was so short and not fully open, but still sounds like it was interesting enough. i believe most of those points i’ve heard him say in interviews up on YT (minus the recent production status details), but still cool that he’s making the extra effort on this.

  On 11/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, auxien said:

IMAX definitely was cool for this, anyone who has the opportunity/ability to catch it as such should imo.

100%, as Villneuve has said many times, Dune is a love letter to the cinema. First IMAX film I've seen that improved the experience. I'll go again if given the chance. 

  On 11/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, auxien said:

kinda sucks the Q & A was so short and not fully open, but still sounds like it was interesting enough. i believe most of those points i’ve heard him say in interviews up on YT (minus the recent production status details), but still cool that he’s making the extra effort on this.

Yeah, I would have liked to ask some questions, but it was nice to hear him after the film. He genuinely sounds passionate, and that is nice to hear, as it's at a remove from the usual sheen of marketing and studio bollocks. 

Mapes: It's been mentioned a few times, and we've talked about what didn't make the cut, but this time it was very telling the lack of Mapes. It does feel like a disconnect having her in the scene with Jessica, dropping off some sheets to Paul's room, and then Leto finding her bleeding out. I'm sure Mapes raises this threat to Jessica in the book, and it does feel like theres a section missing. 

  On 11/23/2021 at 12:48 PM, Shimon_Shimon said:

@Soloman Tump Great seats and view. I think the last IMAX film was a Star Wars one, not sure, it was that memorable . The barn where you saw Dune, do they do films there regularly? I love locations like that. 

 

Yes they do.

Its certainly not the best (biggest!) screen but its a lush place.

https://www.dartington.org/whats-on/barn-cinema/engage/

  On 11/23/2021 at 4:07 PM, Soloman Tump said:

Yes they do.

Its certainly not the best (biggest!) screen but its a lush place.

 

 

https://www.dartington.org/whats-on/barn-cinema/engage/

Expand  

That looks lovely. Quick scan of the programme list looks good too, I'd like to see Petite Maman, and the ROH screenings are always good. Nice link with the local Arts college too. 

Part 2 needs more nipple flaps

my opinion of this remains high with rewatches. it started optimistically high after Villeneuve did what he did with BR2049. I don't think there's anyone else currently who could have done a better overall job here under the circumstances. no, it's not perfect, but that isn't possible anyway. all your favourite films are flawed in some way or other, it's all about what you can or can't reasonably overlook in the final result. of course demanding nerds have to look someone who has come to be their own specific gift horse directly in the mouth and complain about xyz but does it matter? this is proof that you can still make epic/blockbuster-type films that aren't complete diarrhoea-inducing fast food trash. because it isn't that it will probably not be as financially successful as it should be, but that's an indictment of people, not the film.

  On 11/30/2021 at 4:01 AM, usagi said:

 

Expand  

I watched Lynch's Dune on Saturday night, and aside from having massive eye brows, it is never explained what Mentats do. At least this scene kind of shows you.