2020 US Election

  On 10/18/2024 at 7:45 PM, may be rude said:

in 2016 he seemed to be trying to lose by doing several things that seemed like things you would do if you were trying to lose, not trying to win, like

• insulting john mccain for being a prisoner of war
• insulting a fallen american gold star soldier because he was muslim
• doing an impression of a disabled journalist, making fun of the disability 

These are not at all examples of Trump appearing uninterested in winning. These are precisely the things that made him popular. He gained a lot of traction by being a little bully, this was a major part of his appeal. He was irreverent and people really liked it obviously.
 

  On 10/18/2024 at 11:20 PM, Alcofribas said:

  On 10/18/2024 at 7:45 PM, may be rude said:

in 2016 he seemed to be trying to lose by doing several things that seemed like things you would do if you were trying to lose, not trying to win, like

• insulting john mccain for being a prisoner of war
• insulting a fallen american gold star soldier because he was muslim
• doing an impression of a disabled journalist, making fun of the disability 

These are not at all examples of Trump appearing uninterested in winning. These are precisely the things that made him popular. He gained a lot of traction by being a little bully, this was a major part of his appeal. He was irreverent and people really liked it obviously.

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i would call it trolling, and i agree that trolling is part of his appeal. before 2016, i don't think people seriously thought extreme trolling could win someone the presidency in the US. at the time it seemed like he was trying to lose. 

  On 10/18/2024 at 10:59 PM, EdamAnchorman said:

Trump is so teflon that what kind of blackmail could anyone have on him that would even move the needle with his base?

it's totally possible. this is one of the main things the kgb do, their expertise is developing kompromat on people. they even trick people into doing things specifically in order to result in kompromat. trump's the kind of mark to fall right into it. 

crimes, for example. trump's been money laundering with the russian mob for many years. for example, in 2008 he sold a mold-infested mansion for twice its price to Russian billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev. 

what's commonly done with intel services developing agents is they lead them down a path, step by step, incrementally causing them to become more and more compromised. it may have started with some money laundering crimes, then they ask him to run for president, then once he ends up president, he realizes he was conspiring with the russians to get himself elected, which is bad. trump camp hid the 2016 trump tower meeting for a year - that was a meeting explicitly about putin wanting to help trump win, and trump jr replied "i love it." they hid it for a year, including for background checks that asked about things like that. when it got discovered by the press in july 2017, they issued a deceptive statement about it, and claimed trump wasn't involved in that statement. then later it was revealed that trump was involved in the deceptive statement about the meeting. beyond fishy, it stinks. i posted a list of related things in this post.

not even going to get into all this stuff:

This really does highlight how much the propaganda people have done a bang up job. They’ve dehumanized and demonized the “left” so much that even though your main man is shown to have been found liable for sexual assault, has photographic proof of a close relationship with child trafficker rapists, and a very obvious and unusual relationship with Russia but is gods chosen one and will protect you. It never ceases to amaze me how terrifying that is.

i really do not understand how this guy is allowed to run. It doesn’t compute. They (the media) hold literally everyone to a different standard and just let this fuck lie nonstop. This didn’t just set the bar low, it got rid of it and is obviously a symptom of inevitable full societal collapse. 

  On 10/19/2024 at 1:07 AM, Hi Guys said:

This really does highlight how much the propaganda people have done a bang up job. They’ve dehumanized and demonized the “left” so much that even though your main man is shown to have been found liable for sexual assault, has photographic proof of a close relationship with child trafficker rapists, and a very obvious and unusual relationship with Russia but is gods chosen one and will protect you. It never ceases to amaze me how terrifying that is.

 

i really do not understand how this guy is allowed to run. It doesn’t compute. This didn’t just set the bar low, it got rid of it and is obviously a symptom of inevitable full societal collapse. 

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Yes, it's truly frustrating. There is simply no excuse for this man to get any traction whatsoever, but he did it in 2016 and got close enough in 2020. I don't understand how he continues to poll so strongly other than his supporters are bullheaded morons who can't fathom reality. The other option is the polls are wrong because his presence skews something so strongly. But again, how can anyone as intensely unpopular as Trump still be competing against Harris? The only thing they can really say they don't like about Harris is that she's a woman and that's the most blatantly stupid and sexist thing they could argue. I can't begin to tell you how angry this whole pile of shit makes me and I'm hoping beyond hope that he loses, because even if he doesn't do all the awful things he'd be in a position to do, just having him in power is bad enough.

  On 10/19/2024 at 1:07 AM, Hi Guys said:

i really do not understand how this guy is allowed to run. It doesn’t compute. They (the media) hold literally everyone to a different standard and just let this fuck lie nonstop. This didn’t just set the bar low, it got rid of it and is obviously a symptom of inevitable full societal collapse. 

"No serious sociologist any longer believes that the voice of the people expresses any divine or specially wise and lofty idea. The voice of the people expresses the mind of the people, and that mind is made up for it by the group leaders in whom it believes and by those persons who understand the manipulation of public opinion"

  On 10/19/2024 at 1:58 AM, Nebraska said:

"No serious sociologist any longer believes that the voice of the people expresses any divine or specially wise and lofty idea. The voice of the people expresses the mind of the people, and that mind is made up for it by the group leaders in whom it believes and by those persons who understand the manipulation of public opinion"

 

 

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That’s it right there. Damn. 

  On 10/19/2024 at 12:13 AM, may be rude said:

 

 

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wow that is a fucking terrible tie. might be one of the worst ties i've ever seen.

is this that Trump guy y'all keep talking about? did i read it right that he's running for the president of the united states of america? jeeze i'm glad i don't live there, he looks like a douche tho i can't say i've ever heard of him before so i shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

  On 10/19/2024 at 2:33 AM, auxien said:

wow that is a fucking terrible tie. might be one of the worst ties i've ever seen.

is this that Trump guy y'all keep talking about? did i read it right that he's running for the president of the united states of america? jeeze i'm glad i don't live there, he looks like a douche tho i can't say i've ever heard of him before so i shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

he's the guy who said "take the mags away"

on january 6th, at trump's speech, there was a crowd of people waiting beyond the magnetometers, because they didn't want to go through. according to white house aid cassidy hutchinson, trump said "Let them in, take the mags away"  

  On 10/19/2024 at 1:07 AM, Hi Guys said:

This really does highlight how much the propaganda people have done a bang up job. They’ve dehumanized and demonized the “left” so much that even though your main man is shown to have been found liable for sexual assault, has photographic proof of a close relationship with child trafficker rapists, and a very obvious and unusual relationship with Russia but is gods chosen one and will protect you. It never ceases to amaze me how terrifying that is.

 

i really do not understand how this guy is allowed to run. It doesn’t compute. They (the media) hold literally everyone to a different standard and just let this fuck lie nonstop. This didn’t just set the bar low, it got rid of it and is obviously a symptom of inevitable full societal collapse. 

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there are so many connections between trump and jeffrey epstein & ghislaine maxwell. they were his crew. fucked up but true!

wtf is that shit? marketing?

from this 2002 article in new york magazine https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

you can mash the esc button to hack the paywall

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

  On 10/19/2024 at 4:20 AM, Hi Guys said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

 

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i remember that story and narrative. it never got the traction it needed but is likely somewhat true. trump longed to have a trump hotel in moscow. trump org/family tight w/russia and the oligarchs etc. 

the epstein stuff is a rabbit hole. apparently he moved i nmany circles and set up all kinds of financial things for arms dealers everywhere. there's a saudi guy who had a yacht that was mic'd and full of cameras and it was where he'd do all kinds of honey traps etc because he'd loan it out to people. trump later bought that yacht after the saudi guy was assassinated or something. .so, there's all kinds of crazy stories and i'm sure some of them are true or partly true and other are just confabulations and rumors. but who the fuck knows what all these rich assholes w/agendas get up to??? all their schemes and plans. they play for keeps. it's hardball.. real psychopathic type behavior of dominating opponents and being super competitive. 

they're all fucking wacko unreasonable people bent on manipulating the system. ego fucks.  

  On 10/19/2024 at 1:29 AM, Dave3 said:

I don't understand how he continues to poll so strongly other than his supporters are bullheaded morons who can't fathom reality. The other option is the polls are wrong because his presence skews something so strongly. But again, how can anyone as intensely unpopular as Trump still be competing against Harris?

it's not just stupid people. a lot of smart people have bad takes, in this evolving, modern world. fox news is a big part of the problem. what goes around has been a hurricane of garbage information since 2010. sarah palin kind of marked the point when the masses got online, the republican party began its descent into insanity by undertaking a strategy to gaslight the public about everything, and a combination of players piled onto the same power-cleaning of people's brains. fox news went mutant around that time, with glenn beck pushing paranoid fantasies, a precursor to tucker's harvesting of narratives from the internet junk churn. all kinds of people watch fox and for me to consider trying to help them realize how much it's fucked their minds, like with people i know, it's hard. it's genuinely an extent of brainwashing and psychological abuse that is just at another level, and it's a real psychological issue. it's not easy to fix the damage they're doing. they're really messing with people's realities. north koreans may have a better grasp of reality. 

the modern information space is totally different, compared to how information moved, in the 90s. there are new ways to manipulate voters and they've been iterating on it for years. think about information silos. think about how virality determines what gets in front of people. consequently, momentous news can be drowned out and forgotten. 

a lot of people live or operate in spaces where those around them are plugged into the right-wing bubble, so they absorb, by osmosis, right-wing bubble takes. a lot of people maybe didn't want to pay close attention over a number of years and when not really paying attention and absorbing your opinion from your surroundings, you may end up with fox news rabies.

that's why it's important for people to take action and take responsibility, because that's how it works, now. information propagates out from each individual. the old top-down model is gone. share information with people who are deficient in information. 

https://events.democrats.org/

  On 10/19/2024 at 2:58 PM, may be rude said:

it's not just stupid people. a lot of smart people have bad takes, in this evolving, modern world, today. fox news is a big part of the problem. what goes around has been a hurricane of garbage information since 2010. sarah palin kind of marked the point when the masses got online, the republican party began its descent into insanity by undertaking a strategy to gaslight the public about everything, and a combination of players piled onto the same channel for power-cleaning people's brains. fox news went mutant around that time, with glenn beck pushing paranoid fantasies, a precursor to tucker's harvesting of narratives from the internet junk churn. all kinds of people watch fox and for me to consider trying to help them realize how much it's fucked their minds, like with people i know, it's hard. it's genuinely an extent of brainwashing and psychological abuse that is just at another level, and it's a real psychological issue. it's not easy to fix the damage they're doing. they're really messing with people's realities. north koreans may have a better grasp of reality. 

the modern information space is totally different, compared to how information moved, in the 90s. there are new ways to manipulate voters and they've been iterating on it for years. think about information silos. think about how virality determines what gets in front of people. consequently, momentous news can be drowned out and forgotten. 

a lot of people live or operate in spaces where those around them are plugged into the right-wing bubble, so they absorb, by osmosis, right-wing bubble takes. a lot of people maybe didn't want to pay close attention over a number of years and when not really paying attention and absorbing your opinion from your surroundings, you may end up with fox news rabies.

that's why it's important for people to take action and take responsibility, because that's how it works, now. information propagates out from each individual. the old top-down model is gone. share information with people who are deficient in information. 

https://events.democrats.org/

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even before all that... there were race baiting showman who would attract the racists to get voted into office. just listened to 4 part series on behind the bastards about one of georgia's governors and it's a mirror image of what trump has done. just amazing how much alike the guy's rise to power was. even had red suspenders that he made political and people started wearing them to show their support. it's all pretty insane. a portion of the population is subject to these kinds of people because they're suckers. uninformed emotional idiots.. or enough of them are.  if you have the time it's worth listening. each episode is about an hour long. the youtube versions do not have their typical ad break. there are so many similarities to trump and MAGA it's amazing.. it starts kinda slow but once it gets going.. sheesh.. what a piece of shit. 

^

oh cool, thanks.

i guess my point was about how the republican party changed course to go full gaslighting as a party general strategy around 2008, which marked a significant transformation of the party. one could view the 2016 transformation as a later mutation, after the party had set up camp in crazyland.

but, speaking about precedents for trump is interesting. there are precedents for some things but i think there is actually no precedent for the full situation. if you factor in the fundamentally different information space and the societal transition to it, demolishing epistemic safeguards, not to mention the nuclear component, i think we are the first ones to be in a place like this. 

  On 10/19/2024 at 6:07 PM, may be rude said:

^

oh cool, thanks.

i guess my point was about how the republican party changed course to go full gaslighting as a party general strategy around 2008, which marked a significant transformation of the party. one could view the 2016 transformation as a later mutation, after the party had set up camp in crazyland.

but, speaking about precedents for trump is interesting. there are precedents for some things but i think there is actually no precedent for the full situation. if you factor in the fundamentally different information space and the societal transition to it, demolishing epistemic safeguards, not to mention the nuclear component, i think we are the first ones to be in a place like this. 

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they were doing the gaslighting in the 90s too during clinton admin.. what's his name.. Newt Gingrich was gaslighting the fuck out of everyone.. they gaslit everyone about art and music and defunded the national endowment for the arts and national endowment for humanities.. all because of the Piss Christ and an american flag exhibit where the flag was on the floor and you had to walk across it to sign in to the visitor book. all kinds of 'patriots' got super offended and would show up and have a flag folding ceremonies and fold up the flag that the artist put on the floor. it was a whole thing. 

so, this type of playbook is nothing new it's just that they're more effective doing it because of the internet and the nature of weaponized information and their willingness to say absolutely crazy shit since trump came on the scene. 

  On 10/19/2024 at 4:20 AM, Hi Guys said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

 

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  On 10/20/2024 at 3:45 AM, auxien said:

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7 wood, baby.

There’s so much amazing shit in this. It’s lol funny at times. Forehead slap funny. Because. Wtf. Gotta give credit for a very civil non condescending conversation that’s quite productive. No idea who the kid is interviewing him but he’s way media silo’d

Okay. A large part of me hopes Kamala and the lib genocide cnts lose. 

  On 10/19/2024 at 6:49 PM, ignatius said:

they were doing the gaslighting in the 90s too during clinton admin.. what's his name.. Newt Gingrich was gaslighting the fuck out of everyone.. they gaslit everyone about art and music and defunded the national endowment for the arts and national endowment for humanities..

interesting points, but something changed in 2008. during clinton, they impeached him for a blowjob. now, they're ready to go along with trump hanging merrick garland for treason. 

2008 - 2016: mcconnell explicitly led an overall strategy of stonewalling anything good so obama could not get a win because he saw the GOP would fall into a long-term minority position if they let obama rack up wins for years, following the disastrous bush administration (which culminated in GOP policies causing a global economic crash and recession). simultaneously, the smart phone/social media migration was occuring and the new internet started spinning up. we all know how that went. it brought us to 2016.

2016 - 2024: the twisted right, shaped by a blanket strategy of subverting reality, gets aggressively commandeered by a russian agent

the modern rightist world needs to have its keys taken away. it is fucking insane. maybe it's always had psychotic episodes, sociopathic behaviors, veins of insanity, and strategies of deceit, but a qualitative threshold has been crossed. 

as readers here know, i follow The Bulwark, which is a bunch of conservatives who also are in touch with the facts enough to recognize what's going on with the hostile takeover of the republican party. it's generally established among those kinds of circles that the modern republican party is not like the republican party of bush W (which was awful) or the decades before that. they agree that fox news and other maga-aligned actors bear more resemblance to fascist parties we see in other countries than they do to how americans think about the republican party, traditionally. 

in the trump years, the republican party became "post-policy." they literally demonstrated that they were willing to abandon any position they previously claimed they cared about, in the interest of power. 

over the last 8 years the better republicans left and were pushed out. romney is an easy example but there are many. what remains are utter fucking weirdo lunatics like matt gaetz, margerie taylor green, and jim jordan running the party.

  On 10/20/2024 at 10:03 AM, Crazing said:

Okay. A large part of me hopes Kamala and the lib genocide cnts lose.