Israeli-Palestinian conflict

  Quote

The number of Israeli nationals captured by Hamas is "unprecedented", the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have told CNN as the militant group said that the hostages its fighters had taken were being held across Gaza.

smart tactics* from Hamas in the hostagetaking + distribution of Israelis around Gaza, i honestly didn't realize that's what the hostages were for, and it's going to be interesting what Israel's next moves are with dozens/potentially hundreds of their own citizens scattered about.

other bits are saying that Israel's IDF is absolutely shocked at how this all happened so quickly, without warning, without any clue...seems clear their spies/spy tech/intelligence failed pretty handily. 

*not saying this is good or humane. Hamas went in murdering and taking hostages, that ain't a good.

  On 10/8/2023 at 12:59 AM, auxien said:

smart tactics* from Hamas in the hostagetaking + distribution of Israelis around Gaza, i honestly didn't realize that's what the hostages were for, and it's going to be interesting what Israel's next moves are with dozens/potentially hundreds of their own citizens scattered about.

other bits are saying that Israel's IDF is absolutely shocked at how this all happened so quickly, without warning, without any clue...seems clear their spies/spy tech/intelligence failed pretty handily. 

*not saying this is good or humane. Hamas went in murdering and taking hostages, that ain't a good.

Expand  

the kidnappings are standard thing they do i think. there's a history of prison exchanges where israel gives up like 10 per their 1 or something.   equation may have changed though.. the way things are going. 

apparently, for a while, there's been upheaval and disorder in the israeli intelligence and relevant IDF peoples so they weren't exactly operating in top form or so is the narrative. also got caught w/their pants down too i guess.

edit: this does seem difficult to predict though

also, was it really necessary to blur their faces to protect their identities? 

  On 10/8/2023 at 2:14 AM, ignatius said:

also, was it really necessary to blur their faces to protect their identities? 

always good practice in the age of social media. but also, if the image exists with blurred faces, it also certainly exists without blurred faces so.... 

also

  Quote

Efraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad, Israel’s Intelligence Service, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Saturday that Hamas militants had launched thousands of rockets at Israel on Saturday.

“The number of missiles they have launched within less than 24 hours is over 3,000. This is beyond imagination from our point of view, and we didn’t know they had this quantity of missiles, and we certainly didn’t expect that they would be as effective as they were today,” he said.

  On 10/8/2023 at 3:10 AM, auxien said:

always good practice in the age of social media.

someone made a comment that it's to prevent their martyrdom or whatever.. . keep from making them infamous or whatever

  On 10/7/2023 at 5:47 PM, ignatius said:

israel will retaliate with overwhelming force.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/07/world/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-hamas-attack.html

Israel will also retaliate by committing war crimes: https://www.channelstv.com/2023/10/07/israel-halts-electricity-supply-to-gaza-energy-minister/

  On 10/8/2023 at 5:36 AM, chenGOD said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/07/world/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-hamas-attack.html

Israel will also retaliate by committing war crimes: https://www.channelstv.com/2023/10/07/israel-halts-electricity-supply-to-gaza-energy-minister/

 

they do the war crimes even when they're not "at war"

  On 10/8/2023 at 7:09 AM, ignatius said:

they do the war crimes even when they're not "at war"

Standard MO for Israel.
Also this must be tearing the Q folks’ tiny little minds apart. 

  On 10/8/2023 at 7:31 AM, chenGOD said:

Standard MO for Israel.
Also this must be tearing the Q folks’ tiny little minds apart. 

they haven't mentioned water supply yet have they? saw a story a year or so ago about israel building a desalination plant for their water and none of it is going to gaza etc. so, they're getting pretty bad water in low quantities. sort of rationed i guess. 

as for the Q brains.. what in particular about this is tearing up their brains? seems like they're always having the brains shredded from one thing or another

from the river to the sea Palestine will be free

  On 10/8/2023 at 7:36 AM, ignatius said:

they haven't mentioned water supply yet have they? saw a story a year or so ago about israel building a desalination plant for their water and none of it is going to gaza etc. so, they're getting pretty bad water in low quantities. sort of rationed i guess. 

as for the Q brains.. what in particular about this is tearing up their brains? seems like they're always having the brains shredded from one thing or another

 

No water supply yet. *Just* electricity. 
 

Well Q brains blame Jews for running the globalist cabal, but they also dislike muslims…

  On 10/8/2023 at 9:50 AM, chenGOD said:

No water supply yet. *Just* electricity. 
 

Well Q brains blame Jews for running the globalist cabal, but they also dislike muslims…

call them what they are, nazis not "Q"

  On 10/8/2023 at 2:14 AM, ignatius said:

the kidnappings are standard thing they do i think. there's a history of prison exchanges where israel gives up like 10 per their 1 or something.   equation may have changed though.. the way things are going. 

apparently, for a while, there's been upheaval and disorder in the israeli intelligence and relevant IDF peoples so they weren't exactly operating in top form or so is the narrative. also got caught w/their pants down too i guess.

edit: this does seem difficult to predict though

also, was it really necessary to blur their faces to protect their identities? 

Expand  

Well you don't want to ruin their future job opportunities.

This bit of analysis in the Guardian was interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/08/hamas-attack-has-abruptly-altered-the-picture-for-middle-east-diplomacy

Basically that Iran is making this all kick off to make it impossible for Saudi Arabia and Israel to get too friendly

  Quote

 

Iran and the forces it supports have a longer-term strategic goal: to thwart the US-led effort to achieve a normalisation of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, a move that would entrench the US in the Middle East – and in Iran’s eyes deprive the Palestinians of their last influential sponsor.

Iran’s goal is to denormalise the region, and make it near-impossible for Saudi Arabia to strike a deal.

 

Expand  

And if so thats just depressing - you've got a really fucked up situation being stoked and meddled from all different sides while the normal peope on the ground suffer terribly.

the inevitability of it all.. 

&

Can't believe Hamas attacked a psytrance rave killing 260 in the desert. Not very PLUR at all. 

  On 10/8/2023 at 8:56 PM, zazen said:

Iran’s goal is to denormalise the region, and make it near-impossible for Saudi Arabia to strike a deal.

denormalize? 

  On 10/9/2023 at 9:38 AM, cichlisuite said:

denormalize? 

Hmm I suppose the article meant destabilise but its an article about thwarting the normalisation deal between Saidi Arabia and Isreal, so maybe denormalise is a reference to that. Or maybe its just a typo

israel was such a mistake lol

  On 10/9/2023 at 3:54 PM, dr lopez said:

israel was such a mistake lol

blame britain for making all the promising then giving up and dumping it on the UN

and the longer version.. with jokes and reacts.

https://www.thefp.com/p/hamas-war-on-israel-everything-you-need-to-know

(My) tl;dr:

Epic fail on Biden's foreign policy, even going back to Obama days.

Still a mystery how a breach of this magnitude could happen.

  On 10/9/2023 at 8:23 PM, GORDO said:

 

Still a mystery how a breach of this magnitude could happen.

there's a story showing up today.. newsweek etc.. that when trump shared secret docs with russia it was about isreal and that possibly russia shared that info w/iran. or so the story suggests. 

edit: here's the story. 

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-israel-intel-russia-hamas-attack-1833094

  Quote

 

Donald Trump's sharing of alleged classified intelligence to Russian officials in the White House has come under scrutiny amid a large-scale attack by the Hamas Islamist military group against Israel.

In May 2017, the former president defended his actions after he was found to have discussed sensitive details about an alleged Islamic State (ISIS) plot with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in the Oval Office. Trump said he had an absolute right to do so. The intel was said to have been provided to the U.S. from Israel.

It was suggested at the time that the former president's handing over sensitive information from Israel could have damaged the relationship between the two countries. It also could have raised the possibility that the details could be passed from Russia to Iran, the Gulf nation that is a fierce adversary of Israel and has long supported Hamas.

 

Expand  

  On 10/9/2023 at 9:02 PM, ignatius said:

there's a story showing up today.. newsweek etc.. that when trump shared secret docs with russia it was about isreal and that possibly russia shared that info w/iran. or so the story suggests. 

edit: here's the story. 

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-israel-intel-russia-hamas-attack-1833094

 

Russia Russia Russia...

I will not buy any "Russia did it" story for the next century.

Anyway the article I linked argues the case that's it's not in Russia's (or China's ) interest to do this since they're no fans of Islamists either.

  On 10/9/2023 at 9:52 PM, GORDO said:

Russia Russia Russia...

I will not buy any "Russia did it" story for the next century.

Anyway the article I linked argues the case that's it's not in Russia's (or China's ) interest to do this since they're no fans of Islamists either.

it's not saying russia did it.. just that intelligence changed hands and mostly it's trying to take a shit on trump for being a buffoon or perhaps intentionally sharing info with russia for whatever reasons... 

russia and iran have had dealings lately apparently due to the russian invasion of ukraine. they bought some drones or something.. so who knows.. maybe russia sweetened the deal with some intelligence it happened to have. 

russia is happy to do whatever they can if it complicates things for the USA administration and/or makes someone look bad who they want to target. it's how shit works right?

edit: also, more hasan. "gaza is an open air prison"

  Quote

“The Hamas operation is bigger by far than any single operation carried out by Hezbollah [against Israel], although the tactics Hamas used were straight from Hezbollah’s guidebook,” he said. “Hezbollah has been training for these kinds of border-breaching missions since at least 2007.”

Blanford added that he doesn’t predict a larger confrontation erupting between Israel and Hezbollah, but that it can’t be ruled out.

“This is the big question. At this early stage, I would say all bets are off,” he told Al Jazeera.

Expand  

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/palestinians-in-lebanon-ready-to-fight-israel-if-hezbollah-helps-them

Lebanon/Hezbollah getting involved today too. some of the tactics Hamas is using came from Hezbollah....there's been some fighting between Israel & Hezbollah (Lebanon) since that article, Hezbollah killing Israeli commanders and shit.

Saudi Arabia and Iran are outwardly backing Palestine. Israel is outwardly stating the war crimes they're actively doing (blockading Gaza from food/electricity/water), bombing refugee camps and hospitals in Gaza. EU/US/etc still supporting Israel despite outsized/inhumane responses. Hamas stating they're going to off hostages, reports of them already doing so.

idiotic US politicians are stating we need to take aid for Ukraine and direct it to Israel (Israel should already have PLENTY of war machines/weaponry/etc.), US gov already sent over money/weapons/etc....Biden to 'address the nation' about Israel tomorrow i believe. i imagine it'll go something like 'look, the Israelis are mostly pretty white so like, um, we totes love them, hope they humanely kill all the mean brown folks around there' (sourcing for much of that: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-live-news-israel-orders-complete-siege-of-gaza-strip)

shit's all fucked. there's no way any of this ends well.