Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Yeah, I saw some horrifying videos out of there. Israel are now blaming the bombing of the hospital on Hamas rockets, after first stating that the hospital was warned by the IDF before they bombed it. The Hamas rockets barely manage to punch holes in the buildings they hit, so this was obviously something else and far more powerful. This whole region is going to go up in flames soon, and I fear Biden will send in US troops to assist Israel in its bloodshed eventually. I'm fucking enraged and heartbroken over this situation, but I feel less alone in seeing through the propaganda this time. The public opinion seems to be shifting, so I guess there's a limit to how much heinous shit Israel can get away with, and this is looking very much like straight up genocide no matter how hard they try to spin it.

Shit's grim and it's only going to get worse.

Edit 102: Here's a sweet little tweet by the Israeli prime minister that strangely got deleted after getting ratioed to hell and back. Pretty telling on what the current mindset is.

  On 10/17/2023 at 8:29 PM, ignatius said:

  On 10/17/2023 at 7:52 PM, beerwolf said:

Breaking news right now is absolute typical of why I don't trust Israel and their intentions one bit...

you mean telling people to leave then bombing them as they leave?

more like the baby decapitation thing, which turned out to be a lie. Hamas is killing babies, but adding this flourish on top helps sell the Palestinians as wholesale barbaric, which is the Israeli establishment's first and foremost playing card.

  On 10/17/2023 at 11:10 PM, ignatius said:

they'll say it was "Hamas Infrastructure" because it says Hamas on the building.

yeah, even farther than that. in the last few hours since posting that screenshot i've seen a few revisions on CNN/etc about the hospital 'explosion' as they're now calling it, as it 'cannot be independently verified' and 'both sides are pointing fingers' and muddying the waters. 

  On 10/17/2023 at 11:10 PM, ignatius said:

they'll say it was "Hamas Infrastructure" because it says Hamas on the building. but lot's of buildings say Hamas on the building because they are the governing body there.  "hamas was in the building and using civilians as human shields" when reality is it was a shelter where people gathered to try to be safe because all their homes were destroyed. 

fuck. 

 

Copying Putin's playbook a la Mariupol (etc) and Assad's (and Putin's again) in Aleppo (also etc)

Of course if you were some psycho hell bent on escalating the whole situation the first place you would bomb would be that hospital and blame Israel....

Wow

https://x.com/magedbik/status/1714396454230405298

  On 10/19/2023 at 1:27 AM, GORDO said:

Wow

https://x.com/magedbik/status/1714396454230405298

 

yeah.. going viral. that guy Bassem Youssef is awesome. that interview is in a bunch of youtube vids as well. "react" videos and lefty commentary etc.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-resignation-gaza_n_65306079e4b00565b622b1fb

Sickened by the whole thing, can't understand why all other countries govs aren't calling for a ceasefire to stop the killing of innocent civilians on both sides, I mean I can clearly see why the people who have fuck all to do with it who are horrible pigs and are making money off of arms sales are happy but I can't understand how Ursula Von Der Liar is and then giving out about displaced refugees trying to move to Europe, the worst of humanity acting at their absolute worst, all these years of evolution the arrival of the Internet and to use it to spread disinformation and to add fuel to wars, probably a simplistic view that money is the ultimate cause for its prolonging but the cynic in me says it is. The virus with shoes, seems like trees need to evolve a way of killing us

  On 10/19/2023 at 3:14 AM, Mattthegoone said:

Sickened by the whole thing, can't understand why all other countries govs aren't calling for a ceasefire to stop the killing of innocent civilians on both sides, I mean I can clearly see why the people who have fuck all to do with it who are horrible pigs and are making money off of arms sales are happy but I can't understand how Ursula Von Der Liar is and then giving out about displaced refugees trying to move to Europe, the worst of humanity acting at their absolute worst, all these years of evolution the arrival of the Internet and to use it to spread disinformation and to add fuel to wars, probably a simplistic view that money is the ultimate cause for its prolonging but the cynic in me says it is. The virus with shoes, seems like trees need to evolve a way of killing us

 

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money is too simplistic, it's an emergent phenomenon, taking on forms differing depending on the mode of production

a) capitalist mode of production being incapable of providing for the material needs of people

b) fascism, a reassertion of the capitalist mode of production in the most brutal and obvious way, taking on an ethno-nationalist and therefore genocidal character in Israel

c) imperialism, they want israel as a US military outpost in the region, like a younger Biden said "If Israel did not exist we would have to create it" as a justification for sending them more aid

Yeah but what do the capitalist, fascist and imperialist leaders all want? Power, wealth, money, like a 3 sided coin innit, or a 12 sided dice if you want to pretend that there are more intricacies, they all want a dice made out of saffron, gold, diamonds, heroin, children lives or whatever the fuck they can be the greediest fucks from at the expense of whichever other little cunts that they like

  On 10/19/2023 at 11:07 PM, Mattthegoone said:

Yeah but what do the capitalist, fascist and imperialist leaders all want? Power, wealth, money, like a 3 sided coin innit, or a 12 sided dice if you want to pretend that there are more intricacies, they all want a dice made out of saffron, gold, diamonds, heroin, children lives or whatever the fuck they can be the greediest fucks from at the expense of whichever other little cunts that they like

the "leaders" are nothing more than figureheads, stooges put in place by the owning class itself through sham elections which are rigged ahead of time to only let in one of two options, which consists of a much larger population, though still a minority of the global population when the working class is included.  and yes, they want lives of luxury without having to work, by extracting the surplus labor value of the working class, and the entire product of global south and otherwise exploited and imperialized countries

I've no idea what it is that you're trying to say "leaders" and sham elections, what are you saying? Throw me a slow ball here so I can better understand these sham elections? I don't understand what you are saying if you aren't going beyond sham elections and the real possibly unelected leaders (ie the money men that are happy to coin it off a war that I was talking about initially in my initial musings)

  On 10/19/2023 at 1:39 AM, ignatius said:

yeah.. going viral. that guy Bassem Youssef is awesome. that interview is in a bunch of youtube vids as well. "react" videos and lefty commentary etc.

I don't have Twitter so can't see but I was gonna post this up last night after I watched it because it's absolutely genius. It's definitely worth everyone's time.

14 million views and counting...

  Quote

No two armed conflicts are the same. But the demands of international humanitarian law to protect civilians apply to all: do not deliberately or indiscriminately attack civilians, do not take hostages, do not punish civilians for the actions of individuals, do not deny or withhold humanitarian assistance.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/19/international-humanitarian-law-applies-all-states

re: the hospital: both stories seem possible to me: (a) that IDF did it or (b) that hamas accidentally did it and then blamed it on the IDF.

and the whole confusion over it is an example of modern information warfare. Will we ever get a clear narrative on what happened to the hospital or will both sides continue to build their story? We're going to have to get used to information warfare.

(makes me think of climate change - even when we're all underwater or half the world is wrecked the arguments about it still wont end, denialists will still be saying its sunspots or some shit)

So you might feel that the internet has made everything worse, but actually thinking back to 9-11 and the second Iraq war I think there is a wider spectrum of views being disseminated than there was 20 years ago and as a result things are playing out differently.

Like there's two sides to the modern 'social media during a world crisis' coin:

- cameras everywhere, quick reporting, lots of viewpoints getting wide exposure

- fake footage, misleading messages, any possible confusion is capitalised upon for maximum leverage

BUT both sides have to operate in that environment, e.g. I think the IDF is having to be more careful (or at least try and appear to be more careful) that they would have 20 years ago. so many cameras now. And hamas brutality from two weeks ago was exposed much more than perhaps they expected due to cameras everwhere.

And for us, sitting safely thousands of miles away, a confusing barrage of conflicting information to deal with. But perhaps thats more realistic? Perhaps we've got too used to complicated world events being neatly packaged up and explained to us. We gotta do more homework these days.

  On 10/19/2023 at 3:11 AM, exitonly said:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-resignation-gaza_n_65306079e4b00565b622b1fb

  On 10/17/2023 at 11:23 PM, Silent Member said:

Edit 102: Here's a sweet little tweet by the Israeli prime minister that strangely got deleted after getting ratioed to hell and back. Pretty telling on what the current mindset is.

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the children of light and darkness need to learn how to share the desert sand playground instead of always fighting over it

seriously though: bibi should just admit his kampf

I wonder what the exchange rate is today? 

If you wonder, well why does Mr Beer so involved in this, as he's not usually so political. Well first I'm not as stupid as you may think, though I am definitely not 'academic'. To cut a long story short (I say that phrase a lot) I had a lot of contact with many, many Israelis for 6 months. And I started to look into many things, as most of them and the way they conducted themselves, simply put, made me hate them. I mean certain Muslims aren't exactly the number one flavour of the month are they. But I started to realise and read up on the situation. I then realised pretty quick, and which I find absloutely vile, that they use the big situation of WW2 as a mechanism to do exactly as they please, and to avoid any criticism whatsoever, and if you dare criticism them, then you off with your head. Anyway, you can bet I detest those Hamas bastards just as much. But it's the way Team Jew use the H word as an excuse to do exactly as they please, is what makes me vitriolically oppose them, and what makes me Team Palestine. 

I think that's a kind of weird post, but it's how I feel. Right or wrong.

  On 10/20/2023 at 1:28 AM, Mattthegoone said:

I've no idea what it is that you're trying to say "leaders" and sham elections, what are you saying? Throw me a slow ball here so I can better understand these sham elections? I don't understand what you are saying if you aren't going beyond sham elections and the real possibly unelected leaders (ie the money men that are happy to coin it off a war that I was talking about initially in my initial musings)

in the US for example there are democrats and republicans.  both capitalists advocating continuation of owning class control of the country.  when anyone even remotely left wing like bernie sanders (a tepid social democrat) tries to run, they slander him in capitalist media.  let alone an actual socialist trying to get in to give working class control.  it is a dictatorship of the owning class, it just shifts between one of two factions

both democrats and republicans want to maintain israel and support its genocide of palestinians.

the only parties who dont? communists, the only ones with actual principles

https://www.liberationnews.org/psl-statement-free-palestine-free-all-palestinian-political-prisoners-end-all-u-s-aid-to-the-israeli-apartheid-regime/

  Quote

The Pentagon said it shot down missiles fired from Yemen and potentially headed towards Israel. The report came just a day after U.S. troops were attacked in Iraq and Syria, stoking fears of a regional expansion of the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/20/1207523642/yemen-missiles-intercepted

America trying to get in on the action

"we're gonna finish this war, we're going to win because we're stronger. after this, russia will pay the price, believe me, russia will pay the price." 

“russia supports the enemies of israel…and russia will pay. we will win, and then we will help Ukraine win" - Amir Weitmann, head of the libertarian caucus in Israel's Likud Party and (alleged) close confidant to yahu

https://www.thedailybeast.com/netanyahu-party-member-furiously-threatens-russiaon-russian-state-tv

https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israeli-official-warns-russia-you-will-pay-for-backing-hamas/

  On 10/20/2023 at 8:35 PM, zlemflolia said:

in the US for example there are democrats and republicans.  both capitalists advocating continuation of owning class control of the country.  when anyone even remotely left wing like bernie sanders (a tepid social democrat) tries to run, they slander him in capitalist media.  let alone an actual socialist trying to get in to give working class control.  it is a dictatorship of the owning class, it just shifts between one of two factions

both democrats and republicans want to maintain israel and support its genocide of palestinians.

the only parties who dont? communists, the only ones with actual principles

https://www.liberationnews.org/psl-statement-free-palestine-free-all-palestinian-political-prisoners-end-all-u-s-aid-to-the-israeli-apartheid-regime/

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I still have idea what you mean

The point I'm trying to make is that innocent people are dying and it's a sad state of affairs that every other country isn't asking for a ceasefire, and money is the real reason