Israeli-Palestinian conflict

  On 10/10/2023 at 2:02 AM, auxien said:

idiotic US politicians are stating we need to take aid for Ukraine and direct it to Israel

The US has been sending so much money to Israel for so long, something like $90B over the past 25 years (not adjusted for inflation either). It's also one of the grossest pieces of ongoing corruption, as Israel spends a huge chunk of that on US military equipment.

https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576

And man the US is pushing to escalate this, if the Al-Jazeera report is accurate on what the US is sending to the region: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/what-military-aid-the-us-is-sending-to-israel-after-hamas-attack

Looks like it: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-raises-death-toll-9-americans-killed-weekend-103830620

What Hamas did is appalling, of course, but what the Zionist fascists in Israel have been doing the past 70 years there is sickening.

Jesus the Israeli's were no very circumspect in their psyops:

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas: https://archive.md/iPO3z (Wall Street Journal)

  On 10/10/2023 at 2:02 AM, auxien said:

shit's all fucked. there's no way any of this ends well.

shit's all fucked. there's no way any of this ends.

isreal hitting the genocide button. 300,000 troops. bombing, missiles, USA sending carriers to the area, no water/food/electricity to Gaza. 

it's insane. this shit is bananas. all the time. day after day year after year for a hundred years.. slow burn ethnic cleansing. 

  On 10/10/2023 at 3:06 AM, ignatius said:

there's no way any of this ends.

isreal hitting the genocide button. 300,000 troops. bombing, missiles, USA sending carriers to the area, no water/food/electricity to Gaza. 

perhaps yeah. 

i would expect Israel is exactly trying for that yeah. some hints for it in chen's post above and the quick jump into war/destruction Israel seems to be stating/signaling. the whole of the last ~75 years has been to eradicate. saw some unsourced tales of early Israeli settlements/more recent attacks on Palestinians and was just horrified...i honestly didn't want to research it and find out if 50%/90%/100% true cause if it wasn't totally fabricated it was disgusting. i've seen nothing legit that Israel wants Palestine to exist. they want them all gone. and the US gov does too, for whatever reasons which i still don't quite grok

  On 10/10/2023 at 3:33 AM, auxien said:

and the US gov does too,

allies in the middle east, votes in the USA. lip service to jewish americans for votes and campaign donations.

Gaza is mostly young people. average age is 18 or something.. and like 40% of the population is 14 or under.  

another thing brought up today is that western journos or any journalists.. won't go into Gaza to get the story from there because they're mostly worried about being killed by Israeli bombs/missiles/bullets. they've killed tons of journalists over the years and many who've been in there in less dangerous times have interviewed Hamas people and locals etc etc but won't go there now because the word is that regardless of hostages and all that.. israel is going to blow everything up anyways.. hostages be damned. 

  On 10/10/2023 at 4:10 AM, ignatius said:

allies in the middle east, votes in the USA. lip service to jewish americans for votes and campaign donations.

yeah the allies in the middle east thing seem clearly a big part of why the US pushed for Israel to exist in the first place...the votes in the USA thing maybe isn't as clear. i could see the religious radicals who love 'the Jewish people' as a concept because of the bible turning against them/Israel in a heartbeat given the right circumstances tho. campaign donations aren't that big of a part of the puzzle, but it ain't nothing. it always feels like there's more to the story than i'm seeing, but also i've not researched properly so idk man. just thinking out loud i guess.

  On 10/10/2023 at 4:46 AM, auxien said:

yeah the allies in the middle east thing seem clearly a big part of why the US pushed for Israel to exist in the first place...the votes in the USA thing maybe isn't as clear. i could see the religious radicals who love 'the Jewish people' as a concept because of the bible turning against them/Israel in a heartbeat given the right circumstances tho. campaign donations aren't that big of a part of the puzzle, but it ain't nothing. it always feels like there's more to the story than i'm seeing, but also i've not researched properly so idk man. just thinking out loud i guess.

i'm sure there's more to the story than we're seeing/know. also, there's leftover policies from previous generation i think.. to some extent. but there are jewish voting blocks in different parts of the USA that always vote... same way Cuban people always vote in south florida so they always got a lot of lip service about castro and the embargo and all that. "tough on cuba" rhetoric. 

i haven't read a lot about the history around palestine and creation of israel.. just the broad strokes really. so, it's hard to say what was going in the minds of the USA then. i'm sure there's a wide range of opinions and many closed door ugly discussions. 

there's probably a few shelves full of books that take this all apart from a thousand angles. i haven't read any of it. worth mentioning that israel has an estimated 300 nuclear weapons stock piled and thats tech from the USA. no one else in the region has nukes do they? ally in the region.. global politics.. give and take etc.  

some of the biggest fubars in modern history took place in the middle east thanks to western meddling and map making.. creating countries etc. people get PHDs in this kind of history/culture and go on to be consultants or whatever. 

edit: it's like whispering into the digital ether and the questions get (sort of) addressed.. "why britain, US, australia support israel so hard"

post Hasan again. post Hasan again, I dare you, I double dare you muthafucka, post his goofy clickbaiting mug one mo' gotdamn time.

for someone who is not Palestinian observing this mess from the sidelines, it is easy enough to answer the banal black/white question of "do you condemn Hamas' actions". if I had to answer with one word I would say "yes", but that doesn't mean anything by itself. I agree with the ambassador's basic point that asking this of Palestinians in the face of everything they've had to deal with for decades now is meaningless and self-defeating.

am i the only one thinking how all these local conflicts will drag on and on (tying up the western forces and resources), then a few more will spawn (since this shit seems to be trending), then china will invade taiwan and the next thing you know there's gonna be a third wolrd war

What a wonderful world  

  On 10/10/2023 at 8:55 AM, cichlisuite said:

am i the only one thinking how all these local conflicts will drag on and on (tying up the western forces and resources), then a few more will spawn (since this shit seems to be trending), then china will invade taiwan and the next thing you know there's gonna be a third wolrd war

Yup, dunno if that's how it's gonna play out but it certainly feels like the long period of relative peace is coming to an end.

  On 10/10/2023 at 6:58 AM, usagi said:

post Hasan again.

yeah. i know. but he's consistently got the right take on this. but yeah.. i over did it. 

i saw that BBC interview. .there's another one similar with another BBC reporter who seems clueless to all the history and tries to grill the palestinian spokesperson. he handles it similarly. 

i'm kind of amazed the BBC is even getting these people on air. they aren't getting on air in america best i can tell. in usa some of the news anchors are getting on their kahki wear and giving reports from the middle east. full on war porn like they do.. like w/iraq and all that. same vibe. 

  On 10/10/2023 at 5:25 PM, GORDO said:

Yup, dunno if that's how it's gonna play out but it certainly feels like the long period of relative peace is coming to an end.

relative for who though? not for the people living in gaza or the west bank. hasn't been that long either. these relative peace situations are only a matter of weeks or months. we just don't hear about it over here

edit: not hasan.. here's democracy now with reporting from inside Gaza

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/10/how-should-the-us-respond-to-the-israel-palestine-crisis-our-panel-weighs-in

a variety of opinions about why the US is doing things very wrong here

Speaking sensibly I sometimes have the feeling that Planet Earth is itching for a massive fucking fight. Also that the planet with its huge ecological problems and too many rich assholes and too many poor people all converging on a ever decreasing space all of them destroying the planet in one way or the other, and rise of another bunch of power mad cunts in China which decreases the space even more.

It does seem as though one day soon, the whole thing is gonna go POP

  On 10/10/2023 at 6:17 PM, ignatius said:

 

relative for who though? not for the people living in gaza or the west bank. hasn't been that long either. these relative peace situations are only a matter of weeks or months. we just don't hear about it over here

 

 That's what relative implies, that it's not absolute. It's relative to the world before WWII ended.

clearly the middle east, Africa and eastern Europe haven't seen much stability if any.

not loudly denouncing hamas can lead to "inadvertently" not getting hired on wallstreet

  On 10/10/2023 at 8:50 PM, Nebraska said:

not loudly denouncing hamas can lead to "inadvertently" not getting hired on wallstreet

Expand  

not blindly supporting Israel no matter what is gonna get classed as a woke thing now, won’t it? ugh

  On 10/10/2023 at 10:40 AM, xox said:

What a wonderful world  

it's gonna be alright!

  On 10/10/2023 at 10:03 PM, auxien said:

not blindly supporting Israel no matter what is gonna get classed as a woke thing now, won’t it? ugh

yeah and wanting people’s names on lists is not a great look either. 

https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/palestine-on-fire

just saw a NY Post headline about hamas decapitating babies at a kibutz. 40 bodies inside. hands bound, heads off. lot's of children and babies.  reporters in shock etc. 

if that report is accurate... this is all going to further feed the blood lust gaining steam in israel. hamas really are a bunch of psychos.. and are going to find their level of atrocity matched but i'm sure someone there made that calculation. 

endlessly sad that ordinary people always pay the price and i guess always have.. especially in settler colonialism situations. endless.

egypt already saying "don't come this way" to palestinians.. they're going to be hemmed in as usual. nowhere to go and bombs falling all around.. ground invasion of Gaza likely. 300,000 troops are massing.. at last report i read. 

fuck. i have an MRI scheduled for tonight at 9pm so will take 2 valium and hopefully zone out to the MRI techno sounds. perhaps the MRI will erase my brain  while i'm in there. 

  On 10/10/2023 at 6:17 PM, ignatius said:

yeah. i know. but he's consistently got the right take on this. but yeah.. i over did it. 

respectfully - taking opinions from a streamer, regardless of their political stripe, is a step down from taking reddit opinions, even. I wish for your sake you'd be more discriminating.

  On 10/10/2023 at 6:17 PM, ignatius said:

i saw that BBC interview. .there's another one similar with another BBC reporter who seems clueless to all the history and tries to grill the palestinian spokesperson. he handles it similarly. 

i'm kind of amazed the BBC is even getting these people on air. they aren't getting on air in america best i can tell. in usa some of the news anchors are getting on their kahki wear and giving reports from the middle east. full on war porn like they do.. like w/iraq and all that. same vibe. 

America's had a far more lopsided view of this problem since the start, what with the deep-seated political entanglement and the goofy love affair your bible-bashers have with zionists.

  On 10/11/2023 at 4:40 AM, usagi said:

respectfully - taking opinions from a streamer, regardless of their political stripe, is a step down from taking reddit opinions, even. I wish for your sake you'd be more discriminating.

understand what you're saying but respectfully, not all streamers are the same. and he's well on top of his shit with this issue as far as i've seen and is saying the same things many other people are saying and have said for decades. regardless, i digest a wide range of sources when i'm interested in something. 

and yeah.. the evangelicals have all kinds of hard ons for "The Holy Land" and half of them are probably accelerationist "end of the world judgement day bring on the second coming of our lord and savior" type apocalyptic assholes.

below images are making the rounds. meme outlets. 

these people in hamas believe narratives, narratives we've all seen people spread

  On 10/11/2023 at 4:47 AM, trying to be less rude said:

these people in hamas believe narratives, narratives we've all seen people spread

what does this post mean? i dont get it at all and ive read it a few times