AE_2022－

  On 9/23/2023 at 1:25 PM, dcom said:

That "leave it for a year" quip is bullshit, it's elitist truehead bragging that you "get it" while others don't. You can habituate and acclimate yourself to almost anything with enough repetition. I know this because I've done it numerous times, and some of it has been Autechre - but it doesn't mean that I actually like something, it's just become familiar enough for me not to dislike it.

personally it works differently, it is not simply an acclimate after several repetitions: I often have my attention fixed on a detail, possibly highlighted by the mix, so that I don't immediately notice the relationships with the background levels. At a certain point my attention shifts to these less prominent aspects and I realize a cohesive overall vision despite the initial random impression. Since this happens to me, I am led to imagine that it can happen to others too: it is a process of understanding that occurs naturally in me, I don't think there is anything elitist about this.
In the first half hour of the new sets, lines in different tones coexist, and this led me to perceive some sections as atonal, after a while of listening - and always when I didn't approach listening in an analytical way, transforming it into a work - the melodies and patterns have become clearer, and I now perceive those same sections as polytonal. So yes, it is a pleasure to slide from one sound to another, discovering the way in which they dialogue, and at the same time receiving this moving sound object as a whole, without resisting it in the rational attempt to dissect it

  On 9/23/2023 at 12:30 PM, WurstPLUS said:

 

The underlying question is: Is it impossible the seanpls produce garbage? (not saying AE_LIVE is garbage). I mean, let's be honest, the shoanplease can start up FL studio, put a 1 of 4 kickdrum on it, add some noise every few bars, create a 21m minute file of it... WATMM will find an explanation why it is great.

 

this is more or less what I often heard back in the days of confield, then draft, then until Ted. Now it's tt2's turn.
This is also a recognizable, non-stochastic pattern

  On 9/23/2023 at 2:39 AM, ignatius said:

listen harder. there's patterns in there. 

or just come back to it in a year and see if you have the ah ha moment.

Of course there is patterns there! 

 

whatever happened to everyone just listening to what they enjoy and leaving the rest? jeesh.

  On 9/23/2023 at 1:25 PM, dcom said:

That "leave it for a year" quip is condescending bullshit, elitist truehead bragging that you "get it" while others don't ("I didn't mean it like that" defence notwithstanding). You can habituate and acclimate to anything with enough repetition; I know this because I've done it numerous times, and some of it has been Autechre - but it doesn't mean that I actually like something, it's just become familiar enough for me not to dislike it.

actually kinda* agree, on the other hand there's no need to get pompous about being among the chosen few who "get" stuff's actually crap and everyone else is just fooling themselves (not pointed at you directly).

(*i like to compare the matter to differing opinions in general: you're more inclined to give second thoughts about something you disagree with coming from someone you're on the same page on usually. that kinda "vertrauensvorsprung" in itself isn't autosuggestive imo)

there's more than enough ae tracks i don't like, like fermium and flh, i just think they're a bit on the goofy side. so what.

  On 9/23/2023 at 2:27 PM, jaderpansen said:

whatever happened to everyone just listening to what they enjoy and leaving the rest?

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? On a discussion site about music?

just here to see if Wurst has another breakdown about not liking some AE and throws a tirade and quits WATMM again

jkjk Wurst i hope you just yknow, don't listen to it. if you don't like something or think it sucks, go off about it that's cool, who cares. AE aren't a golden cow for worship. i still think elseq was 90% blah. 

anyway i'm still loving the 2022 live sets i think they're fuckin stellar. can see criticisms tho, and it's sure as shit not for everyone.

there is nothing condescending or pompous about ignatius' "leave it for a year" suggestion, I am sure of it. It's what I also do when I listen to something I'm not "used to" e.g., I might play Bach fugues/sonatas on the harpsichord/piano, or Schoenberg atonal stuff, Nancarrow, Tristan Murail, Gerard Grisey etc, you get the point. After a few minutes I might think "let's leave this on the side for the time being". I'm not jumping into "i like this / I don't like this" conclusions, neither do I feel the urgency or obligation to formalise a judgement/reaction.

That's interesting to mention Shoenberg. I never could find enjoyment in his music but his writings on music and harmony are wonderful, with a lot of fun philosophical musings couched between the stuff about technique. He talked about how the first harmony in ancient times was just people singing in unison, and gradually the octave, then fifths, then thirds and finally more dissonant tones are introduced to the harmony, but when the dissonances first appear it gives listeners pause and time is needed before their ears can get used to it. Of course they may very well still dislike it once there is familiarity, but I have had similar thoughts with Autechre's music. This is speaking beside the point of value judgements for the new live material, but in the past I have given their music good faith listens, knowing at the outset that I would not enjoy it as much as music I already love, with the ulterior motive that exposure to the sounds would broaden and perhaps change my perception of rhythm and harmony.

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, auxien said:

if you don't like something or think it sucks, go off about it that's cool, who cares

Yeah this, but somehow it is still pretty okay to talk about it that Is why this sub-forum exists and since everyone is having an opinion it is cool. 
It is interesting when smart asses speculate around mathematical terms and algorithms connections with Ae's music 

  On 9/23/2023 at 2:44 PM, dcom said:

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? On a discussion site about music?

naaaah, hate that "good vibes only" mindset, shat all over "all end" myself when it came out eg, also discussed how PLUS felt like an outtake collection to me etc.

i have no problem with stating unpopular opinions whatsoevs, what i meant is the tendency to read more into it than being just that: opinions. like it's "objectively" wrong to like or dislike this or that because it's "unsound" in some psychological way, y'know "if you weren't delusional you'd see my opinion is actually right blah".

i mean it's fucking music, not maths or ethics or whatever. dunno.

do go on.

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, auxien said:

i still think elseq was 90% blah.

fuck off!

Meanwhile, in a not so distant universe:

  On 9/21/2023 at 9:07 PM, dcom said:

2022 Helsinki was my third Autechre in-person live gig, and I've been a fan for 30 years, but I think it's starting to fade in a very similar way - but for different reasons - my RDJ fandom began to shrivel not long after Analord. I do love Autechre and they've been the longest constant in my extrapersonal music life; SIGN and PLUS are amazing and brought their more contemporary output back to focus for me, but I have so much other music in my life that I can't be arsed to listen to things that require way too much repetition for me to acclimate to. Don't get me wrong, I (mostly) prefer musical complexity over naivete (which minimalism is not), but I've never liked pseudorandom rhythmic noise. I'm glad that there are people who do.

This worries me a bit because the last time I went to AE-gigs (around 2005) those experiences helped me appreciate their then-current music more. Untilted is one of those albums. Listening to Untilted at home initially, I thought it was a bit dry. It was AE going techno. But after seeing them live, I started to appreciate it more. In a live setting, it has a different impact. The context changes the music.

But reading your experiences, I wonder whether I'll be able to appreciate these live sets more. Because I kind of agree with you. These sets don't click with me. There are some bits and pieces I can enjoy, but only for a short amount of time. After a while, the music starts to become obnoxious and annoying. It's very demanding without a reward. And I simply have to skip. And if having listened to them live doesn't help, I don't know what will.

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, jaderpansen said:

naaaah, hate that "good vibes only" mindset

I was yanking your chain with that, but I'm also peeved that there isn't any balance between appreciative and critical views, it's mostly just us fans going bonkers over everything that the canonical WATMM artists put out; but then again, WATMM is grounded in our fandom of these artists, so no surprises there - but with the overall level of intelligence and rhetorical ability I'm always expecting more than just "ooh did you hear that."

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:31 PM, IOS said:

there is nothing condescending or pompous about ignatius' "leave it for a year" suggestion, I am sure of it.

I meant to criticize the notion in general without pointing a finger at anyone in particular, as it was echoed by others, too. I also stated that I'm very familiar with acclimatizing to things with repetition, and I know it works, but advising others to do it is easily interpreted as condescending, especially within the context of a highly specialized discussion forum like WATMM. A lot of music we listen to and discuss can be considered difficult enough to warrant repeated exposure, so doling it out as advice is, well, duh.

Based on that, yes, I coulda shoulda woulda taken the quips in good faith, but that ship's sailed now.

  On 9/23/2023 at 1:25 PM, dcom said:

That "leave it for a year" quip is condescending bullshit, elitist truehead bragging that you "get it" while others don't ("I didn't mean it like that" defence notwithstanding). You can habituate and acclimate to anything with enough repetition; I know this because I've done it numerous times, and some of it has been Autechre - but it doesn't mean that I actually like something, it's just become familiar enough for me not to dislike it.

nah man.. not being condescending.. i've left shit for a year or two before because i didn't get it. 

i did that w/Draft 7.30.  at first i was into bits of it but then not so much. .it didn't click for me and like 2 years later i remembered i hadn't listened to it in a long time so put it on and it was just the thing i needed and it made sense to me then. 

so, not being pompous.. just saying that some times it's not the right time for a release and maybe at another point in your life it will make more sense. this has happened to me with different releases from different artists over the years... Ornette Coleman for example. his shit can be wild af or super lush. a track or two got me into him and checking out things but then years later i put it on and it all kinda came together and made sense to me or something. 

and i'm not discounting the fact that maybe someone just doesn't like a thing and that's all there is to it.. but being here on watmm amongst autechre fans it seems a missed opportunity to say "maybe it'll be better in a year" and not to give up because you're obviously an astute listener and i hate to think of people missing out on something they might enjoy.... 

only good intentions.. not being smug and didn't mean for it to come off that way. 

  On 9/23/2023 at 7:27 PM, ignatius said:

only good intentions.. not being smug and didn't mean for it to come off that way. 

See above.

  On 9/23/2023 at 5:04 PM, IOS said:

Meanwhile, in a not so distant universe:

 

Expand  

that looks like a demanding piece for the players. intense. 

  On 9/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, auxien said:

just here to see if Wurst has another breakdown about not liking some AE and throws a tirade and quits WATMM again

Lmao 

I don't think saying 'give it some time and it might grow on you' (or words to that effect) is condescending at all.

We've all been there. Some stuff I was initially bitterly disappointed by ended up amongst my absolute favourite music ever.

what ae album would trigger the biggest fistfight if watmm was a bar? the most abstract one? makes u think 

  On 9/23/2023 at 10:02 PM, chronical said:

what ae album would trigger the biggest fistfight if watmm was a bar? the most abstract one? makes u think 

next album comes with a handjob so you'll be sure to release endorphins no matter if u harmonise with the artist or not

Yes they are super demanding these live-sets.. Roller Coaster high level 

Now I only listen to all the Live-sets being split up into separate tracks by some chick.. 
If someone have more info on all material she done or where she uploading the tracks? Please send info here! 

  On 9/23/2023 at 11:06 PM, cern said:

Yes they are super demanding these live-sets.. Roller Coaster high level 

Now I only listen to all the Live-sets being split up into separate tracks by some chick.. 
If someone have more info on all material she done or where she uploading the tracks? Please send info here! 

I tried to download the files, but the first time I couldn't, and the second time I downloaded non-encodable files, anyway, the stuff is here

he playlist on yt too:

In my opinion the first half of the set has moments that were not fully captured, but the second half was recomposed in an excellent way