new korg analog ms 20 mini

  On 1/28/2013 at 8:53 PM, psn said:

The new MS20 is volt/octave, though.

 

No, retains the same spec as original, but there is a way to sequence using V/oct.

 

  Quote

 

The osc CV / trigger specs are the exact same as the original as far as I can see. That means the following:

• Trig In / Out (jacks to the right): s-trigger (Input disconnects keyboard trigger)
• Kbd CV Out / VCO 1+2 CV In (jacks to the right): Hz/V (0-8V) (Input disconnects keyboard CV)
• Total and Freq Inputs for VCO 1+2 (jacks top left): V/Oct (+/-5V) with the corresponding Ext/T.Ext Knobs all the way up; this does not disconnect the keyboard
• Other triggers are s-triggers too, e.g. the trig in for the S/H (which, actually, is a T/H if they kept it original - adjust the pulsewidth (e.g. on the internal LFO all the way clockwise) to get the classic S/H effect).

 

The V/Oct inputs were originally thought to be for modulation, not for sequencing, but they respond to V/Oct at full range. The "usual" CV/Gate Inputs and Outputs are Hz/V.

 

That means:

 

To connect with other MS synths, use the normal CV/Gate inputs to the right.

 

To be controlled by V/Oct sequencers or keyboards, use the modulation inputs for the VCOs. Additionally, you need to convert the v-trigger from the controller to an s-trigger. The MS20 ESP can do this, but it will only produce triggers, not gates. A logic inverter should work as well I think. Alternatively, it is easy to DIY an s-trigger <-> v-trigger converter. (It's also possible to DIY V/Oct <-> Hz/V converters, a precise linear VCA should do the job). Even another alternative is to bypass the internal MS envelopes completely and use your favorite Euro (or whatever) envelope to control the MS Filters and VCA (Gain Input on top to the right), then you wouldn't need an s-trigger.

 

Note that it is possible to set up the V/Oct inputs to work with ES/Silent Way/Volta, a little bit of workaround is needed again as you need to open the VCA for the calibration (while in modular land you have direct osc outs), then close it again for playing... But it's possible and works well IME (I have Volta and a Motu 828 mkIII).

 

Using the MS keyboard to control V/Oct and v-trigger gear is more cumbersome, you'd need some kind of converter for that, since it doesn't output V/Oct and v-trigger out of the box.

 

Ah, OK! I stand corrected.

  On 1/27/2013 at 11:24 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 1/27/2013 at 10:40 PM, ganus said:

Horses for courses and all that... but I quite like the sound of the DSI stuff. I've had a notion to put cash aside for a MophoX4 thing and try to pretend that it doesn't have such a pish name. But I reckon the new Prophet 12 sounds top-notch - chances of realistically being able to save that kind of cash tho is pretty remote. Also, whoever said that it was all digitial except the filters needs to go back and re-read the specs.I heard that from other forums and such, as I was unable to find official specs, so I could be wrong, and I would be happy to be proven wrong about this. Have a link?

the oscillators aren't analogue, otherwise Dave would make mention of that in the video. he doesn't.

 

he does however play up the fact that it has analogue filters and amp section.

 

if the oscs were analogue too, he'd say.

 

Yeah, I've since watched the SonicState video where Dave is interviewed and he's quite explicit about the osc's being digital. The amp section is analogue and at least some of the effects are too. He's not explicit about whether the delay is and the flexibility of it suggests that it's digital. So, this is very much a hybrid but I think it's disingenuous to say that you could easily copy this with softsynths.

 

I really do like the look of it. That said, for just a wee bit extra cash you could get the Mini-MS20, the Elektron Analogue 4 and a Mopho X4.

 

Summary.... loads of cool stuff the now.

For that money I'd get an MS-20 mini, a Juno 60, a TR-606, a JX3P and a JX8p.

Yeah, I don't get people bitching about there not being enough good analog polysynths on the market, because the JX series is ace, and cheap as fuck.

  On 1/29/2013 at 4:00 AM, ganus said:

Yeah, I don't get people bitching about there not being enough good analog polysynths on the market, because the JX series is ace, and cheap as fuck.

Maybe because they are not true analog polysynths?

  On 1/29/2013 at 6:20 PM, Audioblysk said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 4:00 AM, ganus said:

Yeah, I don't get people bitching about there not being enough good analog polysynths on the market, because the JX series is ace, and cheap as fuck.

Maybe because they are not true analog polysynths?

 

True enough for me. Recently repurchased a Jx3p - so lush.

  On 1/29/2013 at 6:56 PM, scones to die for said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 6:20 PM, Audioblysk said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 4:00 AM, ganus said:

Yeah, I don't get people bitching about there not being enough good analog polysynths on the market, because the JX series is ace, and cheap as fuck.

Maybe because they are not true analog polysynths?

 

True enough for me. Recently repurchased a Jx3p - so lush.

I agree their sound is lush. Just offering an answer to his inquiry :)

I still want a multiple VCO poly-analog, but that's just fetishism at this point.

  On 1/29/2013 at 7:16 PM, Audioblysk said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 6:56 PM, scones to die for said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 6:20 PM, Audioblysk said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 4:00 AM, ganus said:

Yeah, I don't get people bitching about there not being enough good analog polysynths on the market, because the JX series is ace, and cheap as fuck.

Maybe because they are not true analog polysynths?

 

True enough for me. Recently repurchased a Jx3p - so lush.

I agree their sound is lush. Just offering an answer to his inquiry :)

I still want a multiple VCO poly-analog, but that's just fetishism at this point.

 

I have one (MKS-80), and yes they sound amazing. It can't do everything, but it is my favorite synth.

PolySix isn't THAT expensive.

any word on the MIDI spec?

  On 1/30/2013 at 11:09 AM, soundwave said:

any word on the MIDI spec?

Korg's website says "Only note messages (velocity is not used) can be transmitted and received." so I'm guessing the midi will just control note gate/cv.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Rbrmyofr

New euro module by the harvestman for integrating MS synths with v/oct etc.

http://trashaudio.com/2013/01/harvestman-english-tear-namm-notes/

Edited January 30, 2013 by kakapo

  On 1/30/2013 at 3:00 PM, Rbrmyofr said:

 

  On 1/30/2013 at 11:09 AM, soundwave said:

 

any word on the MIDI spec?

Korg's website says "Only note messages (velocity is not used) can be transmitted and received." so I'm guessing the midi will just control note gate/cv.

thats a bit toss for £500

it's going to be a while before i buy another Dave Smith product, i feel pretty burned by the Tempest ( a y ear later) having no proper midi implementation (literally he only piece of midi gear i've bought for over $200 that DOES NOT have a midi implementation chart in the manual). The Prophet 12 looks great though, just wish they finished the Tempest before moving onto 2 new products already

New Buchla Music Easel > Prophet 12. I don't care if it's mono or whatever. It's a only-once-done rehash. Not a ten-times-done rehash.

I'm happy to see Korg made this but I'm still waiting until some in depth reviews of this unit come out. The price is right for me (over the sub phatty which i like for the moog filter and all of the individual knobs the regular phatty lacks) but I get a little worried by the sales guys doing the demo always hitting home that its all Analog & 86% of the original size...

 

 

2:29 - they obviously had to use modern parts to recreate this & hopefully these won't modify the sound to drastically from the orginal.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Icct

  On 2/2/2013 at 8:21 PM, Icct said:

I get a little worried by the sales guys doing the demo always hitting home that its all Analog & 86% of the original size...

Why's that? It seems to me there's just not much else to talk about as besides the size, USB and MIDI, it's a 1:1 reissue.

if the cv is controlled by.a cpu then maybe they can do a firmware upgrade so that you can switch between either voltage scaling. somone could even replace the os and add a seq? *dreamtalk

  On 2/22/2013 at 2:20 PM, chunky said:

if the cv is controlled by.a cpu then maybe they can do a firmware upgrade so that you can switch between either voltage scaling. somone could even replace the os and add a seq? *dreamtalk

Interesting idea. I'm guessing there's some serious hax going on to bring this to the market at such a low price that would present obstacles to offering firmware upgrades. But until someone does a teardown, who outside Korg knows?

but then a lot of people would cry that it's a hybrid in reality or something... what korg has said so far implies that it's pretty much the same circuits as the original (though probably miniaturized due to SMD) + a USB-MIDI to CV thing & that pitch detection to CV thing.

https://soundcloud.com/cdm/korg-ms-20-mini-meet-ms-20

in digital logic they can send different signals down the same line. think it's called a bus? logic 0 means off, logic 1 means on, but there's another signal called X which basically means the line is disconnected so another line can communicate on the same signal. it's called a tri state buffer? in theory you could have a cpu controlling all the CVs and then shut off the CPU and digital connections then have them go directly analogue? im just guessing here based on the little i know. if they haven't done anything cool like this then we should ask them to do it for the next revision. technically they can have it switch between hz/v and cv/gate (damn i keep forgetting if it's v/hz or hz/v, who cares lol)

 

 

 

as for the price then it's not very shocking. analogue is really basic today. what we need to wait for is for lots of companies to pile in and compete, this while drive the prices down even further. think of a playstation, it cost 400 quid when it came out, now it's much cheaper.

 

 

 

gotta laugh at all the Sega VS Nintendo type of blogs comparing this synth to others. reminds me of when i was a little kid and we was arguing in the playground over which is better, Sonic or Mario ?

 

 

 

i feel stupid following the fashino and wanting to buy something that i know will be reduced in value over the next few years. this keyboard will end up being a hundred quid before we know it. but i still want it. anyone read erich fromm? zany intellectual who had a lot to say about people who WANT STUFF and put emphasis on HAVING. i think id feel a lot better using my wages to get classical piano lessons lol. all these new keyboards are going to be pretty good and cheaper before long. now to concentrate on spritual/aesthetic/playing sort of areas of music? w00t

Edited February 23, 2013 by chunky

  On 1/31/2013 at 4:13 PM, futureimage said:

New Buchla Music Easel > Prophet 12. I don't care if it's mono or whatever. It's a only-once-done rehash. Not a ten-times-done rehash.

 

Yeah, I think a bit of poop came out when I read they're remaking the easel, fortunately/unfortunately the pooping stopped when I heard the price. Admitedly $4,000 is a rediculous bargain for what you'd get, but still miles out of my wallet's grasp =(

 

  On 1/31/2013 at 12:34 AM, soundwave said:

 

  On 1/30/2013 at 3:00 PM, Rbrmyofr said:

 

  On 1/30/2013 at 11:09 AM, soundwave said:

 

any word on the MIDI spec?

Korg's website says "Only note messages (velocity is not used) can be transmitted and received." so I'm guessing the midi will just control note gate/cv.

thats a bit toss for £500

 

Well, yes and no. I guess people have come to expect certain functionality from hardware synths, within certain price ranges. I mean no one would ever consider releasing a VA which had extremely limited midi.

 

But the flipside is this, to integrate midi control over all parameters on the ms20 mini would almost certainly require a complete redesign for much of the cicuitry inside. Completely at odds with the whole concept of making an exact replica of the original. I suppose it's arguable whether giving the MG a tempo sync function would significantly change the sound for example, but either way.. it wouldn't be the same.

 

So then it's a toss up for Korg. No dount they saw how much orignals go for on ebay and figured they could get some of that cash, and they're absolutely right. So the decission would be which group of potential customers do they aim at. The "purists" who will want something as close as physically possible to the original, or those who would rather sacrifice some of that autheticity in favour of modernisation.

 

Clearly Korg have gone for the first option, and I think they made the right call personally. I have wanted an MS20 for years and years, now I can get one, and I'm fkn well going to!!

 

I think look at it this way. If someone offered to sell you a MINT condition MS20 for £500, you'd jump at it without a second thought. This is basically the offer you have in front of you here.

I'm gonna do all I can to get one of these this year. Even if it means selling a couple of guitars..