A pair of explosions rocks the finish line at the Boston Marathon, injuring at least a half-dozen people.

Micro Gargantua looks like a scientists, i cant believe he made that mistake.

"Micro Gargantua"

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:23 AM, Deer said:

Micro Gargantua looks like a scientists

 

 

Or maybe he just put on chemistry lab goggles to look smarter?

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:15 AM, mokz said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:08 AM, ambermonk said:

What? Who said the brothers were Czech?

 

People didn't Czech themselves before the tweeted.

Personallu I heard the brothers were related to Chachi from Happy Days

  On 4/20/2013 at 4:34 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

glad they got him in custody...though from what Ive heard his wounds could potentially be life-threatening. He needs to survive goddamnit so that he can be tried in a fucking court of law....why is it so strange that I demand this of criminals nowadays?

 

I also heard that the Attorney General says there is a public safety stipulation that allows the police/FBI to waive miranda rights during interrogation....I wonder if that will cause problems down the road.

 

But anyways, I've been trying to distance myself from painting him one way or the other.....now that Im hearing the brothers were Chechens makes it even more of a mystery/complicated? Hope he survives. We should get some answers.

One of the most encouraging surprises was my mom telling me "I do not completely understand the 'not reading of maranda rights' and at this point I do not know if I would trust anyone's explanation about it." I'm glad she was skeptical of that misinformation and speculation by the part of the press. I worry many Americans were already convinced that this suspect should be ushered into a military court sans constitutional rights as an "enemy combatant."

The Attorney General was mentioning a law/provision that allows the FBI and police forces to ask questions that pertain to immediate safety of citizens: were other bombs are located, where accomplices are about to strike. It's a narrow scope and once the situations are over it's back to Miranda Rights. The misinformation is that this is confused with provisions for "enemy combatants" overseas and all of that complicated war or terror gray area legal bullshit.

They are Chechen but expats - they didn't grow up there but instead lived in Kyrgyzstan before moving to Dagestan, which neighbors Chechnya and is also very much involved in directly and indirectly with pro-separatist AND pro-Islamic state insurgencies (much like Laos and Cambodioa were bases for the Viet Cong in the Vietnam war). After living in Dagestan they moved to the US.

The older brother was born in the North Caucasus, then when it was part of the Russian state of the USSR, and the younger one was born in Kyrgyzstan. No idea if his parents were born in Chechnya. Here's the catch - thousands of Chechens were forcefully moved to Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan in the 1940s by the Soviet Government. Many moved there during the 90s war, which their parents apparently did to flee the violence. It's also well-documented that Chechens were discriminated in those countries as well. That would explain why they left for Dagestan and then the U.S. They seem adverse to America but still very much anti-Russian - one said he'd be a boxer for the U.S. and not Russia.

This kind of literal homelessness and detachment from their own country would explain their turn toward a desperate act of terrorism. Personally I think some kind of personal frustrations and resentment toward Americans pushed them to act here and not overseas - as if to bring attention to the conflicts in their homeland. Think about it - they could of pulled a far larger bombing in Grozny or Moscow and it would not be anywhere close to making any impact toward Western or American policy. They wanted to bring attention to Chechnya and the Caucasus region.

  On 4/20/2013 at 8:43 AM, ambermonk said:

ambermonk, on 19 Apr 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 8:34 AM, Joseph said:

Joseph, on 19 Apr 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 5:20 AM, ambermonk said:

ambermonk, on 19 Apr 2013 - 8:20 PM, said:

 

I heard that CISPA passed the House of Reps while all the chaos in Massachusetts went on this week. (Mods can move this post to the CISPA thread if necessary.)

I also heard that the President threatened to veto it.

 

Is this some kind of diversionary tactic? Waiting for some major event like this to steal the headlines and use that as a smokescreen to do their dirty work when the public eye isn't looking?

 

It feels like we're repeatedly getting played for fools.

I agree it's pretty weird. The timing of the NDAA was also weird. Don't think you can conclude much from it though.

 

If the press wanted to cover CISPA, they'd have covered it. They didn't because they're corrupt to the bone.

I still believe everything that happened in MA this week was orchestrated by the Tsarnaev brothers, so I don't doubt any authenticity there. And I don't believe it was any conspiracy by Congress in that regard. I don't think they saw the attacks in Boston and Watertown coming, but I do think they saw the media distraction as an opportunity to do something they didn't want to attract public attention to.

exactly, well said. These are the type of things that are overshadowed by too much talk about false flags. When in reality the most common type of 'conspiracy' happens right under our nose, when people are completely focused on something else it's the perfect time to push through legislation that is unfavorable. The controversial provision in the NDAA was literally signed into law on New Years eve.

and in response to the above, the miranda rights thing is pretty interesting. At least the way the media was trying to rationalize and explain to the viewers why stripping a suspect of their miranda rights is necessary in certain circumstances. I find it obviously highly questionable.

and just fyi, 9/11 is an entire rabbit hole unto itself. You can easily prove there was a coverup and an attempt by the whitehouse to obstruct an investigation as long as possible (and once the investigation was done it happened directly in the middle of the first months of the Iraq war). Bush and Cheney refusing to testify under oath at the 9/11 commission, etc. There are plenty of facts to make this case. To say 9/11 was a 'false flag' is another animal entirely and deserves it's own thread.

however the Anthrax attacks, which followed in the immediate wake of 9/11 are a 'false flag' attack by any measure of the definition of the phrase. Even if you believe the 'lone nut' idea that the FBI said is what happened, Bruce Ivins wanted to frame Muslims and imply that muslim/arab israel haters were sending out anthrax in some sort of coordinated 9/11 like attack. That is in essence what a false flag is, when someone does some kind of attack on civilian or military and creates a scenario where it can be easily blamed on the intended target.

When Colin Powell went to the UN with a fake vial of anthrax and tried to tie it to Saddam Hussein, at that point they knew the Anthrax came from Ft. Detrick Maryland from a US bioweapons lab and still used the incriminating nature of it to frame Iraq for possessing 'wmds'.

Another example of a planned false flag is in the Joint Chiefs of Staff document 'Operation Northwoods' where it was proposed to have secret Cuban friendlies launch a 'hostile' attack on the US military base Gitmo and then use it as an excuse to invade Cuba in a Bay of Pigs 2.

So my problem with jumping on the 'false flag' assertion so quickly after an event is it makes anyone bringing up the *very real* concept of a false flag look foolish by association. I'd be the first here to say it if there was any convincing evidence these kids were setup. What my concern is now is that much of the information we're getting is coming from the Boston PD, who have already killed a man in a firefight while none of the media was allowed in and no cellphone service was on. Where were the copter cams? Where is the evidence this man on the run threw explosives at them? Where is the evidence either one was 'wearing bombs'? These are the kinds of questions I think the media ought to be pressing the boston PD about. Also the FBI claims they have video that proves their guilt, I haven't seen it. I'd like to before I make any kind of definitive conclusion. IT's also very unlikely this other guy is going to have any statements go directly from him to the press. Almost always terrorist suspects are given a gag order. John Walker Lindh, the 'american taliban' arrested in 2001 in Afghanistan, is still under a 20 year gag order. WE won't hear his side of the story until some time when I'm 40.

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:28 AM, jules said:

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

The guy is a product of culture. Unfortunately this is too far of an intellectual leap for most in the US mainstream media to take onboard - since virtually none of them are trained in psychology/behavioural sciences.

humans are very easy to manipulate

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:31 AM, Bread said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:28 AM, jules said:

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

The guy is a product of culture. Unfortunately this is too far of an intellectual leap for most in the US mainstream media to take onboard - since virtually none of them are trained in psychology/behavioural sciences.

 

what culture ? he's been in usa for years, he knows that killing people is bad.

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:28 AM, jules said:

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

feel the same way

Interesting background piece on huffpo about what is currently known about the brothers:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/tsarnaev-brothers_n_3125550.html

One of the ironies is an alleged radicalisation of especially the older brother which led him into a confrontation with the local imam himself. Seeing the current discussion about islamophobia in another thread, i'd say this is an interesting example for both sides of the argument.

  On 4/21/2013 at 3:41 AM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:31 AM, Bread said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:28 AM, jules said:

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

The guy is a product of culture. Unfortunately this is too far of an intellectual leap for most in the US mainstream media to take onboard - since virtually none of them are trained in psychology/behavioural sciences.

 

what culture ? he's been in usa for years, he knows that killing people is bad.

 

Well - some values can be more reinforcing than others depending on the person's background/environments they have been exposed to.

If you're playing with the free will card, you're outside of scientific parameters already.

How anyone can feel sorry for this dumbass blows my mind.

I can maybe try and understand him, but feel sorry for the guy? lolno

  On 4/21/2013 at 12:56 PM, Bread said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 3:41 AM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:31 AM, Bread said:

 

  On 4/21/2013 at 1:28 AM, jules said:

I actually can't help but feel really bad for this 19 year old kid. I am not condoning his actions whatsoever and he deserves the full punishment of the law. I feel like he was probably pulled into this by his brother whom he probably idolized. thinking if him bleeding out scared as hell in a boat fills me with grief for him. I feel weird feeling sorry and sad for him but I do.

The guy is a product of culture. Unfortunately this is too far of an intellectual leap for most in the US mainstream media to take onboard - since virtually none of them are trained in psychology/behavioural sciences.

 

what culture ? he's been in usa for years, he knows that killing people is bad.

 

Well - some values can be more reinforcing than others depending on the person's background/environments they have been exposed to.

If you're playing with the free will card, you're outside of scientific parameters already.

 

and what's that about free will exactly ? you don't think it's a "variable" in this situation ?

  On 4/21/2013 at 2:53 PM, Friendly Foil said:

How anyone can feel sorry for this dumbass blows my mind.

 

I can maybe try and understand him, but feel sorry for the guy? lolno

yeah, I have to say, they both seem like complete dumbasses. Thankfully.

just got to the part where he talks about breaking bad and smoking weed.

effort at sympathy: dwindling

I think a lifetime is a good amount of time for him to ponder his idiocy.

I have a hobby horse theory of my own, to whit that the modern world satisfies almost every human need except for the need for adventure, the unknown (so important to young men). I think it's linked to your idea, in the sense that in a pre-planned world (overpopulated, with income disparity) it becomes difficult for young men to see where they can carve out a niche they can call their own. Something unique that they can be proud of. In the past, you could spend "2 years before the mast" and go to a completely alien continent, but now it's all starbucks and gps.

However...while I do think this general sentiment contributes to the feeling of rootlessness and unclear identity in the modern world...it doesn't get these two idiots off the hook. Doesn't even make me sympathetic to them. They seem to have had so much, but they just couldn't take off the blinders and accept it (I'm thinking of the older brother here). There's definitely some spiritual hole when one bro can dress like a metrosexual douchebag, be extremely materialistic (the mercedes, the narcissism), and yet still have a chip on his shoulder and say he can't related to any Americans. "Pathetic, entitled, douche asshole" are some words that seem to fit. Unless something new comes to light. As for the younger brother, based on the quotes in that Huffpo piece, he seems to have quite a lot in common with the elder, and not be as much the duped victim as some may be saying.

lumpenprol's attitude is most likely the correct one. i have no emotions one way or the other about the older brother, but the younger one has a narrative that allows for some level of empathy. at 19 i think there's an intrinsic ability to be duped by everything. it's taken me a while to realize that there isn't much difference between a 19 year old and a 12 year old. they're both idiotic children. i don't think this feeling means that he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions, and the sadness i feel at reading a story like this is a holistic reaction to the entire situation. the news, the people running onto the streets in boston chanting usa, usa, the little kid that got blown up in the initial attack and finally some clueless, alienated teenager holed up in a boat, bleeding out, having run over his own brother to make a self defeating, muddled political point that no american is going pay attention to. what a waste.

in case you need an affirmation from a celebrated sociologist for your theory lumps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cage

interesting stuff

[youtubehd]FwXD0hCvtX4[/youtubehd]

word, zaphod. And that is interesting Eugene, I knew a bit about Weber back in Uni but don't remember the Iron Cage notion...reading now

  On 4/21/2013 at 5:52 PM, lumpenprol said:

I have a hobby horse theory of my own, to whit that the modern world satisfies almost every human need except for the need for adventure, the unknown (so important to young men). I think it's linked to your idea, in the sense that in a pre-planned world (overpopulated, with income disparity) it becomes difficult for young men to see where they can carve out a niche they can call their own. Something unique that they can be proud of. In the past, you could spend "2 years before the mast" and go to a completely alien continent, but now it's all starbucks and gps.

 

thats really fucking good (pops in fight club, makes pop corn)...not being sarcastic. i agree with you

  On 4/21/2013 at 6:15 PM, zaphod said:

lumpenprol's attitude is most likely the correct one. i have no emotions one way or the other about the older brother, but the younger one has a narrative that allows for some level of empathy. at 19 i think there's an intrinsic ability to be duped by everything. it's taken me a while to realize that there isn't much difference between a 19 year old and a 12 year old. they're both idiotic children. i don't think this feeling means that he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions, and the sadness i feel at reading a story like this is a holistic reaction to the entire situation. the news, the people running onto the streets in boston chanting usa, usa, the little kid that got blown up in the initial attack and finally some clueless, alienated teenager holed up in a boat, bleeding out, having run over his own brother to make a self defeating, muddled political point that no american is going pay attention to. what a waste.

perfectly put.