French mag Charlie Hebdo attacked by gunmen, 12 dead

i'll put it another way for you & as i dont think its the responsibility of the offended to apologize:

would you do a concert in the US making jibes that black folks somehow deserved slavery?

btw i wont be reading your reply

That was a very efficient way of exposing your ignorance on the subject. It seems I have pressed some buttons when I accused you of antagonism. You should ditch that arrogant posture, it doesn't help your case. One can only wonder why someone would assume such hostility thowards someone they don't know, just because they admitted to be open minded and even to appreciate some aspects of a comedian. I know you (probably) love your wife, but I don't know her, so I can't share your zealous love for anything she happens to say or think.

PS: And I know you will read this - that was quite a childish thing to say by the way. However, all the same.... I wont prompt you for an answer.

I think it's weird that there's no possibility to revise the number victims of the holocaust: even considering to do so would be committing career suicide.

There's also a big focus on jews, while many gypsies, homosexuals and black folks were also put in camps and subsequently murdered.

I am not denying the holocaust or anything; it happened, so much is certain, but I think that as any piece of history it should be able to be re-visioned.

That's what we have the revisionists for.

  On 1/18/2015 at 9:48 AM, Phoenis said:

I am not denying the holocaust or anything; it happened, so much is certain, but I think that as any piece of history it should be able to be re-visioned.

im curious, what exactly needs to be revisioned and why? are the some pressing issues that are not covered by already available studies? some methodological problems?

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:40 AM, eugene said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 9:48 AM, Phoenis said:

I am not denying the holocaust or anything; it happened, so much is certain, but I think that as any piece of history it should be able to be re-visioned.

im curious, what exactly needs to be revisioned and why? are the some pressing issues that are not covered by already available studies? some methodological problems?

 

+1

This is not about Charlie Hebdo anymore, is it?

  On 1/18/2015 at 2:40 PM, goDel said:

This is not about Charlie Hebdo anymore, is it?

kinda because 2 days after the killings at Charlie HQ, 4 jewish people were shot at a parisian (jewish/casher) store by an islamic terrorist, a friend of the others terrorists, so the antisemitic mood in france, is clearly related to dieudonné who hates nothing more than jewish people. dieudonné wrote something digusting right after the killing of those 4 innocent jewish people.

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:27 AM, psn said:

That's what we have the revisionists for.

exactly. btw, is it allowed to express revisionists feelings on this forum ?

  On 1/18/2015 at 5:18 PM, k h o v said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 2:40 PM, goDel said:

This is not about Charlie Hebdo anymore, is it?

 

kinda because 2 days after the killings at Charlie HQ, 4 jewish people were shot at a parisian (jewish/casher) store by an islamic terrorist, a friend of the others terrorists, so the antisemitic mood in france, is clearly related to dieudonné who hates nothing more than jewish people. dieudonné wrote something digusting right after the killing of those 4 innocent jewish people.

Yeah it may not be about the attack on the Charlie Hebdo office anymore but it is still pertinent to the fallout and the social atmosphere immediately after the event.

  Quote

k h o v, on 18 Jan 2015 - 4:18 PM, said:

is it allowed to express revisionists feelings on this forum ?

 

If you're talking about this kind of revisionist feeling, you should probably be prepared to explain your thought processes and cite relevant peer reviewed sources to back up your claims.

Read an interesting opinion piece today about terrorism nowadays is not so much about creating fear, but rather anger. Charlie Hebdo, one could say, angered a couple of people. A couple of people attacked Hebdo. And after the last incident, Hebdo created a new paper with Mohammed on the front and in large volumes this time. So now, Al-quaeda and IS and the likes have more fuel to do what they do. (and to recruit new members) It's a spiral of anger from both sides.

In the West we have our 'sacred' values like freedom of speech and secularism. In the muslim world, their profet is sacred. Our democracy has become like a religion. And like all religions, it's pretty one-side in terms of who is allowed to enjoy it. Only the worshippers of the religion are allowed to have free speech. (eg. totalitarian regimes in middle east backed by western countries? wont start about palestina..)

Intersting twists on terrorism and the way we defend our democracy (for ourselves...).

I agree with goDel, this thread is going a bit in the wrong direction, content-wise and attitude-wise. I'm not closing the thread (yet), but will keep a close watch on it.

The rules do not speak out against subjects like these but do understand that this is first and foremost a music forum and considering the sensitivity of the subject I personally would rather point towards other sites to discuss it.

  On 1/18/2015 at 5:18 PM, k h o v said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 2:40 PM, goDel said:

This is not about Charlie Hebdo anymore, is it?

 

kinda because 2 days after the killings at Charlie HQ, 4 jewish people were shot at a parisian (jewish/casher) store by an islamic terrorist, a friend of the others terrorists, so the antisemitic mood in france, is clearly related to dieudonné who hates nothing more than jewish people. dieudonné wrote something digusting right after the killing of those 4 innocent jewish people.

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:27 AM, psn said:

That's what we have the revisionists for.

 

exactly. btw, is it allowed to express revisionists feelings on this forum ?

 

He didnt write anything disgusting, he said "i feel like charlie couliibaly", meaning he's a comedian that is prosecuted like a terrorist.

  On 1/18/2015 at 5:49 PM, Herr Jan said:

I agree with goDel, this thread is going a bit in the wrong direction, content-wise and attitude-wise. I'm not closing the thread (yet), but will keep a close watch on it.

 

The rules do not speak out against subjects like these but do understand that this is first and foremost a music forum and considering the sensitivity of the subject I personally would rather point towards other sites to discuss it.

 

You won't take our freedoms!!!!

about revisionism, investigation should always be an open thing, restricting it make no sense.

  On 1/18/2015 at 5:37 PM, goDel said:

Read an interesting opinion piece today about terrorism nowadays is not so much about creating fear, but rather anger. Charlie Hebdo, one could say, angered a couple of people. A couple of people attacked Hebdo. And after the last incident, Hebdo created a new paper with Mohammed on the front and in large volumes this time. So now, Al-quaeda and IS and the likes have more fuel to do what they do. (and to recruit new members) It's a spiral of anger from both sides.

 

In the West we have our 'sacred' values like freedom of speech and secularism. In the muslim world, their profet is sacred. Our democracy has become like a religion. And like all religions, it's pretty one-side in terms of who is allowed to enjoy it. Only the worshippers of the religion are allowed to have free speech. (eg. totalitarian regimes in middle east backed by western countries? wont start about palestina..)

 

Intersting twists on terrorism and the way we defend our democracy (for ourselves...).

Would like to read up on this, do you have a link to that article? Interesting spin on taking democracy / free speech as a religion.

Concerning the anger part, it is basically the same what I read last week in an article posted in this thread, the theory being that one of the goals of Al-Qaeda is to polarize / invoke more hatred towards muslims to increase the chance of people being pushed to extremist thoughts. I'm not sure how much retaliation is going on in France right now, althought I've seen an article last week where they spoke about at least 17 violent incidents in France against mosques or muslims, so it seems to pay off unfortunately. But yeah, basically everyone should just listen to Yoda.

  On 1/18/2015 at 6:50 PM, Allize said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 5:18 PM, k h o v said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 2:40 PM, goDel said:

This is not about Charlie Hebdo anymore, is it?

 

kinda because 2 days after the killings at Charlie HQ, 4 jewish people were shot at a parisian (jewish/casher) store by an islamic terrorist, a friend of the others terrorists, so the antisemitic mood in france, is clearly related to dieudonné who hates nothing more than jewish people. dieudonné wrote something digusting right after the killing of those 4 innocent jewish people.

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:27 AM, psn said:

That's what we have the revisionists for.

 

exactly. btw, is it allowed to express revisionists feelings on this forum ?

 

He didnt write anything disgusting, he said "i feel like charlie couliibaly", meaning he's a comedian that is prosecuted like a terrorist.

 

his text was about the demonstration in Paris against terror, and he mocked the demonstration and added (i'm translating), "as far as i am concerned, i feel like charlie coulibaly", mocking the "je suis charlie" slogan (coulibaly being the name of the terrorist who killed 4 jewish people).

his text has nothing to do with his comedian career, but meant he supported an antisemitic terrorist. he deleted his message shortly after.

Your "freedom" taste like hate, i dont bite in sorry. Investigations on holocaust made by antisemitic people / weirdos, i dont call it investigations at all. i call it revisionism. Like i said earlier, leave that to historians.

(sorry herr jan for all this but i have some real issues with revionism and racism, every kind of racism must fought by intellectuals means).

I don't understand where you're getting at, he's entitled to have his own opinion about the demonstrations. About the text, I'm sorry but once again you deffamating, not sure if you even read it.

This is what he said



On a second text, directed thowards the mintser of the interieur, he asked for peace.

  On 1/18/2015 at 9:48 AM, Phoenis said:

I think it's weird that there's no possibility to revise the number victims of the holocaust: even considering to do so would be committing career suicide.

 

There's also a big focus on jews, while many gypsies, homosexuals and black folks were also put in camps and subsequently murdered.

 

I am not denying the holocaust or anything; it happened, so much is certain, but I think that as any piece of history it should be able to be re-visioned.

i think maybe you should visit Auschwitz and "revise" your sense of compassion.

Revisionism doesn't necessarily mean negationism. In tfrance it means you CAN'T question the official version of what happened. Doesn't seem very libertarian if you ask me.

  On 1/18/2015 at 8:59 PM, Allize said:

I don't understand where you're getting at, he's entitled to have his own opinion about the demonstrations. About the text, I'm sorry but once again you deffamating, not sure if you even read it.

 

This is what he said

 

 

On a second text, directed thowards the mintser of the interieur, he asked for peace.

What do you think he meant by "I feel like Charlie Coulibaly."?

Charlie Hebdo made political statements using cartoons. Coulibaly made a statement using guns to kill 4 jewish people. You think he felt like he was making a political statement supporting the use of guns to make a statement? Or you think he felt that Coulibaly was so oppressed his only way out was to kill a few jews while his "colleagues" took out some other people?

  On 1/18/2015 at 9:11 PM, IrisAndTheLens said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 9:48 AM, Phoenis said:

I think it's weird that there's no possibility to revise the number victims of the holocaust: even considering to do so would be committing career suicide.

 

There's also a big focus on jews, while many gypsies, homosexuals and black folks were also put in camps and subsequently murdered.

 

I am not denying the holocaust or anything; it happened, so much is certain, but I think that as any piece of history it should be able to be re-visioned.

 

i think maybe you should visit Auschwitz and "revise" your sense of compassion.

 

nice guilt trap. i actually visited auschwitz

but the thread is going sideways. i wont touch revisionism

more like reviZIONism amirite

toplol/10

its interesting that people who position revisionism (and it disgusts me that its even considered a term of reference) as some kind of open-minded debate, dont focus on recent genocides like Rwanda or the Balkans.

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:27 PM, Phoenis said:

topol/10

let's just drop the subject brancyboy

make a new topic if you want to discuss it

  On 1/18/2015 at 10:03 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 1/18/2015 at 8:59 PM, Allize said:

I don't understand where you're getting at, he's entitled to have his own opinion about the demonstrations. About the text, I'm sorry but once again you deffamating, not sure if you even read it.

 

This is what he said

 

 

On a second text, directed thowards the mintser of the interieur, he asked for peace.

 

What do you think he meant by "I feel like Charlie Coulibaly."?

 

Charlie Hebdo made political statements using cartoons. Coulibaly made a statement using guns to kill 4 jewish people. You think he felt like he was making a political statement supporting the use of guns to make a statement? Or you think he felt that Coulibaly was so oppressed his only way out was to kill a few jews while his "colleagues" took out some other people?

 

Well, if you read the last page you'de see that has been clarified over and over. That quote meant he felt like a charlie, because of his profession, but one that is prossecuted by the authorities as a terrorist, just like coulibally. Hence exacerbating the double standard. The fact that he chose coulibally is because he's black and attacked a jewish store. Obviously this ambiguity is what he was looking for, but it surely isn't a motive to be arrested and surely isn't hate speech or condoning terrorism. You can appease your doubts with he following text he sent to the minister of the interieur...

Anyway, I also don't share a particular interest in keep this discussion going. Too many conflicting parties around here.