Germany NYE attacks

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

fuckin spaniards

in america you are hispanic if you come from south america, but if you come from Spain you are what? i dont know either.

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:37 AM, marf said:

in america you are hispanic if you come from south america, but if you come from Spain you are what? i dont know either.

employed

then you are herspanic

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:33 AM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

fuckin spaniards

 

morir es vivir

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Deer said:

are you seriously labelling people who are fleeing a country in a middle of a civil war economic migrants?

According to many statistics, most many (maybe 50/50) of them truly are economic migrants. Not fleeing from a war.

It does not help that many "Syrian" refugees are not Syrian at all. Many fake Syrian passports involved. Many people having no documents at all lying about their whereabouts in order to get in.

On top of that another 300 000 people in Europe right now we know nothing about at all.

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

 

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

 

 

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

is it possible to integrate the huge # of people immigrating? how willing are they to integrate? i always believe the best way to deal with this is to have open citizenship but if you want it you have to learn the language and pass a test or something, make them fall in love with the american/european dream

 

Well, I consider multiculturalism to be a bad thing so I would definitely force any immigrant to learn the language and give up his cultural views that are incompatible with a state they wanna live in (Canada is doing that: learn english, accept our constitution etc).

Multiculturalism does not lead to multicultural environment. It leads to separated cultures living next to each other and in worse cases (currently muslims, middle easterners) to parallel societies (many Turks in Germany for example). The illusion that multiculturalism works is a result of experience with cultures that are not explicitly violent or in opposition to each other (we prefer wine, they prefer beer) so the problems are not very evident.

Oh and to your question: No. It is not possible to integrate huge number of people at once. It is very difficult even in very low numbers if their culture is fundamentally different.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that all those cultural incompatibilities becomes even more severe when there is a big number of illiterate, uneducated people which is very common between migrants from the Middle East and Africa. With such people, you cannot possibly explain to them they should integrate as you cannot explain rules to stupid people in general let alone stupid people with a completely different cultural background. The decades of huge problems in their countries made a huge impact on population's IQ. Elites and intellectuals killed or expelled.

Unintelligent, uneducated, illiterate people firm in their beliefs and customs == a recipe for disaster even in a homogenic society let alone multicultural.

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

 

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

 

 

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

is it possible to integrate the huge # of people immigrating? how willing are they to integrate? i always believe the best way to deal with this is to have "open to all" citizenship but if you want it you have to learn the language and pass a test or something. Make them fall in love with the american/european dream, it worked in the past

 

Is there a Spanish enclave where you live? I think it's more likely that there's a large Latino population where you live. It's not uncommon for adults who immigrated into a country (especially if they're from a really impoverished place offering little to no education) to not learn the "native" tongue when they have a community and support network that speaks their language. I'm sure it can be chalked up to being laziness in certain cases but I bet learning English isn't always their first priority when they come over with their families. From what I've seen, however, the subsequent generations almost always will adopt the primary language.

  On 1/9/2016 at 10:08 PM, caze said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 9:50 PM, chenGOD said:

Can't tell if you're being deliberately dense or not - I never claimed they had to be perfect - he's claiming they're superior, I'm arguing they're not. I just posted several links to show how attacks against LGBT are on the rise in recent years (including a 22% rise in the UK), referenced Kim Davis, the percentage of people who oppose homosexual marriage, never mind the governors of various states rolling back gay rights. So not sure how you're going to equate that with dramatic improvement.

Countries in Asia, Latin America, and Uganda (as well as other African countries) were all places that have had "western" values imposed on them - showing the same result in homophobia.

 

Tell me what specific values you think the "west" is superior in. The problem is there's this idea of what "western" values are in your head that don't match up with reality. There's probably also a view in your head of what "islamic" values are that doesn't match up with reality. Because both those labels cover huge populations that will have differing values from each other but also within the two groups. Neither one claim superiority.

 

You can't be serious here. You really think there has been no progress made in civil rights with regards to LGBT people in the west? Compared to the vast majority of muslim countries where it's still illegal, and in many cases punishable by death?

 

Also, stop trying to change the topic, this discussion has nothing to do with 'imposing' anything on any other culture (aside from silly attempts at imposing foreign cultural norms here in the west, like the mayor of Köln telling women to cover up and avoid strangers).

 

I never said there hasn't been any progress, I'm saying that this is not some long-cherished western belief, nor is it truly representative of a majority in some places. How long do you think gay marriage has been legal in the 21 countries where it is so? Never mind, I'll tell you - aside from the netherlands, canada, south africa and spain all of the legalization has taken place within the last 5 years. And as the links I provided demonstrate, there is still a lot of resentment and mistreatment of homosexuals.

So yes there has been progress, but there has likewise been progress in many Muslim countries. For example, being gay in Indonesia (largest Muslim population in the world) is not illegal. Same in Turkey. Many muslims around the world are accepting of gays, and if you ask people living in Saudi Arabia (home of everyone's favorite Wahabists) there's a lot of gay sex happening in secret. There are likewise many non-muslim countries with a large muslim population where being gay is not illegal and is accepted socially.

So both the "west" and "islam" (again, futile labels for hugely disparate groups of people) have differing norms within their own cultures.

I'm not trying to change the subject - I'm trying to show how the idea of spreading "western" values because of the belief that they're superior has ultimately led to persecution of homosexuals either through legal or societal mechanisms. This is one example of the idiocy of trying to promote "western" values as being superior.

As an aside, covering up has long been part of the blame the victim response in sexual assaults. And it's hardly a foreign custom - mennonites, amish, orthodox jews, and mormons all have dress codes. and again, not all muslims follow the same dress code, which is why some go the full deal (which I still find unsettling, not out of fears of some sort of terrorism, but because I like seeing people's faces when I talk with them) and some wear very revealing clothing.

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

From what I've seen, however, the subsequent generations almost always will adopt the primary language.

 

Not really true in many cases.

Depending on the culture, many of them stays strictly bilingual for many generations while keeping their original language as a primary language in their family and their community (Turks in Germany, Roma in Europe). Many of them showing noticeable deficiencies in the language they should have adopted in the first place which in itself isn't really a problem (the rest of the nation can still communicate with them) but it says something about their will to assimilate IMO.

On the other hand, for example, 2nd generation Vietnamese are perfectly integrated or even assimilated (the Czech republic, Slovakia...).

So it is highly culture-dependent.

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:22 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

From what I've seen, however, the subsequent generations almost always will adopt the primary language.

 

 

Not really true in many cases.

 

Depending on the culture, many of them stays strictly bilingual for many generations while keeping their original language as a primary language in their family and their community (Turks in Germany, Roma in Europe). Many of them showing noticeable deficiencies in the language they should have adopted in the first place which in itself isn't really a problem (the rest of the nation can still communicate with them) but it says something about their will to assimilate IMO.

 

On the other hand, for example, 2nd generation Vietnamese are perfectly integrated or even assimilated (the Czech republic, Slovakia...).

 

So it is highly culture-dependent.

 

I'm sure you're right. I was talking about the Latino (albeit predominantly Mexican) community in my city.

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:33 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:22 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

From what I've seen, however, the subsequent generations almost always will adopt the primary language.

 

 

Not really true in many cases.

 

Depending on the culture, many of them stays strictly bilingual for many generations while keeping their original language as a primary language in their family and their community (Turks in Germany, Roma in Europe). Many of them showing noticeable deficiencies in the language they should have adopted in the first place which in itself isn't really a problem (the rest of the nation can still communicate with them) but it says something about their will to assimilate IMO.

 

On the other hand, for example, 2nd generation Vietnamese are perfectly integrated or even assimilated (the Czech republic, Slovakia...).

 

So it is highly culture-dependent.

 

 

I'm sure you're right. I was talking about the Latino (albeit predominantly Mexican) community in my city.

 

I see. Don't have any experience with them but they are still heavily influenced by their origins aren't they?

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:48 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Deer said:

are you seriously labelling people who are fleeing a country in a middle of a civil war economic migrants?

 

According to many statistics, most many (maybe 50/50) of them truly are economic migrants. Not fleeing from a war.

 

It does not help that many "Syrian" refugees are not Syrian at all. Many fake Syrian passports involved. Many people having no documents at all lying about their whereabouts in order to get in.

 

On top of that another 300 000 people in Europe right now we know nothing about at all.

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

 

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

 

 

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

is it possible to integrate the huge # of people immigrating? how willing are they to integrate? i always believe the best way to deal with this is to have open citizenship but if you want it you have to learn the language and pass a test or something, make them fall in love with the american/european dream

 

 

Well, I consider multiculturalism to be a bad thing so I would definitely force any immigrant to learn the language and give up his cultural views that are incompatible with a state they wanna live in (Canada is doing that: learn english, accept our constitution etc).

 

Multiculturalism does not lead to multicultural environment. It leads to separated cultures living next to each other and in worse cases (currently muslims, middle easterners) to parallel societies (many Turks in Germany for example). The illusion that multiculturalism works is a result of experience with cultures that are not explicitly violent or in opposition to each other (we prefer wine, they prefer beer) so the problems are not very evident.

 

Oh and to your question: No. It is not possible to integrate huge number of people at once. It is very difficult even in very low numbers if their culture is fundamentally different.

 

I live in possibly the most multicultural city in Canada - there is a large population that doesn't speak English very well (there is also the fact that Canada has two official languages, so on the other coast in Quebec many of the immigrants don't learn English but rather French). Our immigration policy is not to force someone to give up their cultural values, but to understand that there are differences and that in Canada the rule of law will be respected. Fortunately, the vast majority of immigrants move to Canada precisely because they want that rule of law. Much like the vast majority of immigrants to European countries want to live with rule of law.

Our immigration process is very well documented, and getting citizenship can be time-consuming, but generally people are allowed to live in the country under some form of residence (either temporary or permanent) while getting this citizenship. There has however been extensive coverage of the slowness of the Canadian immigration process, and lot of criticism of it in the mainstream media.

Again, Europe's policies toward multiculturalism have not truly been multicultural policies - read the article I posted - it covers thing rather well.

delet - you cannot possibly tell where people come from just by looking at their faces, and since you refuse to provide any documented numbers, your "argument" remains strictly in the realm of fantasy. You refused to believe the numbers I provided, but cannot counter with any of your own.

The fact is that while some of the migrants are economic, they are indeed fleeing the same situation that refugees are fleeing. The vast majority do come from Syria and then Afghanistan, and this is confirmed by reputable reporting agencies.

As to the assaults, obviously these are wrong, and the people who committed the crimes should be punished. But even if there were 1000 perpetrators, and they were all refugee seekers, that is still only 0.1% of the refugees in Germany. And reports are putting it at somewhere around 100 perpetrators in all cases combined. So to say this is representative of the refugees as a whole is indeed, highly misleading.

And finally this is not a new phenomenon - http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/rape-culture-germany-cologne-new-years-2016-876

(and one for Zeff, for good measure - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11127814/British-man-raped-at-Germanys-Oktoberfest.html)

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:46 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:33 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:22 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:06 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

From what I've seen, however, the subsequent generations almost always will adopt the primary language.

 

 

Not really true in many cases.

 

Depending on the culture, many of them stays strictly bilingual for many generations while keeping their original language as a primary language in their family and their community (Turks in Germany, Roma in Europe). Many of them showing noticeable deficiencies in the language they should have adopted in the first place which in itself isn't really a problem (the rest of the nation can still communicate with them) but it says something about their will to assimilate IMO.

 

On the other hand, for example, 2nd generation Vietnamese are perfectly integrated or even assimilated (the Czech republic, Slovakia...).

 

So it is highly culture-dependent.

 

 

I'm sure you're right. I was talking about the Latino (albeit predominantly Mexican) community in my city.

 

 

I see. Don't have any experience with them but they are still heavily influenced by their origins aren't they?

 

Sure, but I think that would be the case for almost any culture.

Here's some graphs and quotes from the pew research center

Fully 89% of U.S.-born Latinos spoke English proficiently in 2013, up from 72% in 1980.

In 2013, U.S.-born Hispanics outnumbered foreign-born Hispanics by nearly two-to-one—35 million to 19 million—and made up a growing share (65%) of the nation’s Hispanic population. They are also much younger, with a median age of 19 years compared with 40 among immigrant Hispanics (Stepler and Brown, 2015). At the same time, immigration from Latin America, primarily Mexico, has slowed (Passel, Cohn and Gonzalez-Barrera, 2012), leading to fewer Spanish-speaking new immigrant arrivals and a more settled U.S. Hispanic immigrant population.

Source: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/05/12/english-proficiency-on-the-rise-among-latinos/

For mexicans its probably harder to get rid of their culture/identity since mexico its so close to the USA and they are so many living here, for someone coming from argentina for example, there is no huge population here to sustain a "little argentina" so you have two choices, be lonely or americanized.

  On 1/10/2016 at 2:15 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 1:46 AM, Jev said:

I see. Don't have any experience with them but they are still heavily influenced by their origins aren't they?

 

 

Sure, but I think that would be the case for almost any culture.

 

Here's some graphs and quotes from the pew research center

 

Fully 89% of U.S.-born Latinos spoke English proficiently in 2013, up from 72% in 1980.

 

 

In 2013, U.S.-born Hispanics outnumbered foreign-born Hispanics by nearly two-to-one—35 million to 19 million—and made up a growing share (65%) of the nation’s Hispanic population. They are also much younger, with a median age of 19 years compared with 40 among immigrant Hispanics (Stepler and Brown, 2015). At the same time, immigration from Latin America, primarily Mexico, has slowed (Passel, Cohn and Gonzalez-Barrera, 2012), leading to fewer Spanish-speaking new immigrant arrivals and a more settled U.S. Hispanic immigrant population.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/05/12/english-proficiency-on-the-rise-among-latinos/

 

Thanks, will check.

  On 1/10/2016 at 2:22 AM, Deer said:

...so you have two choices, be lonely or americanized.

To be honest, that is the key to integration or even assimilation. That is why it is necessary to accept only relatively small numbers of immigrants and spread them across the country.

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:46 PM, marf said:

 

i dont blame people for running away. i dont know why they are running and risking their lives on boats to get to the "best" country, Germany. Id hang out in Tunisia or some camp myself than brave drowning in the sea. what is fueling that desire? rumor?

staggering levels of ignorance in this post and some of the most uniformed posting i've yet to witness on WATMM

people might disagree with each other, but i'll break it down for you:

try WAR, endemic poverty, disease, ethic cleansing, zero infrastructures, poor to non-existent educational structures, complete employment exploitation, appalling hygiene, huge levels of infant mortality and child labour, with a sprinkling of centuries of imperial/colonial meddling which removed pre-existing hierarchies and borders. And add a few more which i've missed...

do all these refugees a favour and travel to Turkey or 1 of the many Islands in the eastern Mediterranean trying to assimilate these poor victims of "rumour mongery".

then report back with your updated knowledge and quit being such an uninformed degenerate.

the wars in Iraq and Syria have lead to a full blown evacuation Delet....., thats the difference between previous economic migrants and refugees

i'm probably as old as yourself if not older and i've never witnessed migration into the EU on this scale

complacency within the EU is 1 thing, no arguing there, but post-Iraq (2003) and now with Syria, the situation is increasingly tenuous

emphasizing the economic pull only detracts from the arc of conditions faced in nations such as Nigeria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Syria and soforth

Germany has integrated thousands of Turks successfully over the years, but with ever increasing numbers escaping ever more volatile domestic conditions in the Levant, with no clear unified EU policy (at least one that "works"), is it any wonder things have become so desperately tragic (and by default complex)?

Even IF migrants get to specific desired destinations, theres all kinds of red-tape re-legal work, so in creeps petty crime & already established organized crime networks are having a field day

Now all we need is a few right-wing govts elected in certain key states and the whole thing could implode if not managed with a far greater sense of urgency

Its beyond sad, its a human travesty unlike anything we've seen on this continent since WWII and the expansion of the old USSR into Eastern Europe in its aftermath

*notice, no reference was made to white daps here

ps: equally, try reading The French Intifada, by Andrew fat bastard Hussey, for an outstanding critique of 1 nation's experience "in all this" in recent years

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:28 AM, Deer said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

is it possible to integrate the huge # of people immigrating? how willing are they to integrate? i always believe the best way to deal with this is to have "open to all" citizenship but if you want it you have to learn the language and pass a test or something. Make them fall in love with the american/european dream, it worked in the past

Any of you guys ever lived in Brazil? The cultural integration there is like no other I have seen in the world, people loose their culture after max 1 gen (at least in Curitiva where I lived for a couple o years), is insane. There are people from all over the world, but they are all as Brazilian as one can be.

The way it works is basically that you can't possibly live there without having embraced the language, then the rest is history.

I think this is really the only way to integrate people, forcing them to give up their culture. Right now I live in Sweden where is the complete opposite, is an utter fucking mess of cultures here, and all of these differences end up leading to these kinds of problems in the end imo.

I'm still wondering what warrants the use of "attacks". Apparently people feel "western values" are under attack? Dunno. In the context of charli hebdo and the recent events in paris I can see where people are coming from. In what happened at nye in germany i just can not see any justification for the use of "attacks".

Not unless any kind of sexual harassment is labelled as an attack. And there are strong arguments to do that. No argument here. But in that case the entire discussion on multiculturalism/immigration/ clash of cultures makes no sense. That's like arguing non-western cultures have a monolopy on sexual harassment.

I think some of you need to talk with women more often. You could even make it a fun game. Ask them how many times some random dude grabbed their boob or ass the last time they went for a drink. You might be surprised. The girl with the most grabs gets a free beer.

I'm just confused about the entire discussion, i guess. Or pethaps it's just delet... Declaring himself as some prophet for predicting where things were heading long before "the rest" knew. And I'm guessing "long before" was even before people knew isis even existed. Really? Is this really something where "people" are being ignorant and have to be taught what actually is happening? The grave dangers our beloved western values are currently facing?

Some people need an end of the world chill pill methinks. There's no need to freak out about what is happening. Climate change. Immigrants. Capitalism. Racism. Police violence. Kim Kardashian. The English Premier league. Meteorites falling from the sky. You name it. Freaking out and being outraged doesnt make you more intelligent than people who dont freak out. It may appear to you that people dont acknowledge the dangers you see are ignorant. And hey, sometimes they are. Sometimes they are less so. (People and ignorance are basically a given) So what? Being outraged wont make a difference.

And I'm sure there's going to be people who go into the "huh i wasnt freaking out, i was just showing how people are being ignorant with facts and all. Im being perfectly reasonable. Its just those other people" mode. My advice is to take a chill pill anyways. You never know. It might make you consider the amount of wasted energy youve been putting into this discussion already.

Posting this was my most ignorant thing of the day. I hope. I must be getting too jaded for this shit.

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:17 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

Source?

 

EDIT: To clarify, deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki informed about those attacks in Helsinki. Can you give a source that disprove his claims or disprove he ever said that?

 

http://yle.fi/uutiset/nbi_no_german_link_in_helsinki_train_station_incident/8577608

Koskimäki's statements raised some eyebrows, since they conflict with what the NBI said. His statement about sexual harassment in public places being a new phenomenon in Finland due to the increased influx of refugees is also questioned. Some feel that it ignores the victims of sexual harassment and assaults from the local population, which has always happened, but seen as a status quo. This is just from a Finnish perspective, I don't know the details of the other places, but things are often more nuanced and digging deeper might show a different picture than the initial reactionary response.

I don't deny that problems might arise when there are a lot of people from a different culture arriving to a culturally different place, but all too often I see these refugees being reported and discussed about as one large homogeneous group where the traits of a few criminals is applied to the whole group, which is far from the truth.

  On 1/10/2016 at 9:13 AM, azatoth said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:17 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

Source?

 

EDIT: To clarify, deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki informed about those attacks in Helsinki. Can you give a source that disprove his claims or disprove he ever said that?

http://yle.fi/uutiset/nbi_no_german_link_in_helsinki_train_station_incident/8577608

 

Koskimäki's statements raised some eyebrows, since they conflict with what the NBI said. His statement about sexual harassment in public places being a new phenomenon in Finland due to the increased influx of refugees is also questioned. Some feel that it ignores the victims of sexual harassment and assaults from the local population, which has always happened, but seen as a status quo. This is just from a Finnish perspective, I don't know the details of the other places, but things are often more nuanced and digging deeper might show a different picture than the initial reactionary response.

 

I don't deny that problems might arise when there are a lot of people from a different culture arriving to a culturally different place, but all too often I see these refugees being reported and discussed about as one large homogeneous group where the traits of a few criminals is applied to the whole group, which is far from the truth.

Thanks for posting.

I admit I'm anxiously awaiting peoples reactions and see how this somehow affirms their point of view. It would really show a huge creative potential if they did. Not being spent on making music though. But who cares? Defending your identity is way more important than making music.

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:10 AM, delet... said:

I was calling it an invasion, long before I started watching these YouTube people, I remember the first time I said it here, chengod freaked out, hahhar, I'm probably twice your age deer, that's a long time to see trends and form opinions on things.

Plus how many times do I have to state THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT REFUGEES, they are economic migrants, invading on mass because the gates have been undemocratically opened. So drop that emotional baggage from your mind. It's confounding for those of us that are awake to what's going on, and is what is actually driving the momentum to the right. You need to upload a new set of talking points to your mind.

peace

Sorry to post this here and not in a PM, but despite of the "peace" I think this was actually a dick post.

And I'm not necessarily talking about the dismissive attitude towards deer, or to the people who apparently are not awake to what's going on. Although there's plenty reasons to go there. But the dickish thing I'm currently aiming at is the way you draw chengod into your attempt at the world record of passive aggressiveness.

I know this thing between you and chen doesn't fall out of the sky. There's a bit of backstory. Most of which I'm probably unaware. So I'm not in the position have a judgment on that. But it appears to me that this backstory is taking some toxic forms which can hurt the community.

Any situation where two mods who are openly disagreeing and are pissing eachother off right in the open, is a bad one for the community. You're both mods, and you're on the same team. Your job is to play on the same team. Disagreement is fine, but mods basically calling eachother ignorant right in the open is a no go. Imo.

I'm sure there's more sides to the story. And examples the other way around. Whatever the case though, stop the madness and start to behave like your twice the age as deer. "Harhar" you're a mod.

  On 1/10/2016 at 5:06 AM, cwmbrancity said:

Germany has integrated thousands of Turks successfully over the years

And thousands unsuccessfully. What are you trying to say?

  On 1/10/2016 at 7:51 AM, MIXL2 said:

I think this is really the only way to integrate people, forcing them to give up their culture.

Exactly. I would not insist on someone to completely give up his culture but I would insist on a big chunk of it. It is also very dependent on what particular culture a state is trying to integrate. Some cultures are more similar some less. The more different, the more assimilation has to take place.

  On 1/10/2016 at 8:28 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

what if people living in brazil give less of a crap about the perceived differences between cultures though? is living in a multi cultural society really affecting you personally? if so, how? it works pretty well here, at least in the major cities you have migrants who have been here for generations that still are able to participate in the culture of their choosing without it bothering most people too much. and then over time our wider culture here shifts and adapts symbiotically with them. maybe we should encourage people to integrate as part of a shared culture rather than playing the superiority card where things will just get uglier.

I will quote myself here:

"Multiculturalism does not lead to multicultural environment. It leads to separated cultures living next to each other and in worse cases (currently muslims, middle easterners) to parallel societies (many Turks in Germany for example). The illusion that multiculturalism works is a result of experience with cultures that are not explicitly violent or in opposition to each other (we prefer wine, they prefer beer) so the problems are not very evident."

Also, it is very dependant on a size of different cultural communities. An individual is forced to assimilate within a big group of natives while a group of a sufficient size will create a parallel society.

Moreover, there are cultures that prohibit/discourage their members from marrying a member from a different culture which leads to even more separation between the cultures as it effectively prevents assimilation.

Also, I would say strictly religious members of a religious culture are impossible to assimilate as they have a completely different set of priorities.

  On 1/10/2016 at 9:13 AM, azatoth said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:17 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

Source?

 

EDIT: To clarify, deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki informed about those attacks in Helsinki. Can you give a source that disprove his claims or disprove he ever said that?

 

 

http://yle.fi/uutiset/nbi_no_german_link_in_helsinki_train_station_incident/8577608

 

Koskimäki's statements raised some eyebrows, since they conflict with what the NBI said. His statement about sexual harassment in public places being a new phenomenon in Finland due to the increased influx of refugees is also questioned. Some feel that it ignores the victims of sexual harassment and assaults from the local population, which has always happened, but seen as a status quo. This is just from a Finnish perspective, I don't know the details of the other places, but things are often more nuanced and digging deeper might show a different picture than the initial reactionary response.

 

I don't deny that problems might arise when there are a lot of people from a different culture arriving to a culturally different place, but all too often I see these refugees being reported and discussed about as one large homogeneous group where the traits of a few criminals is applied to the whole group, which is far from the truth.

Thanks.

  On 1/10/2016 at 8:46 AM, goDel said:

Not unless any kind of sexual harassment is labelled as an attack. And there are strong arguments to do that. No argument here. But in that case the entire discussion on multiculturalism/immigration/ clash of cultures makes no sense. That's like arguing non-western cultures have a monolopy on sexual harassment.

Actually, some cultures in today's world truly seem to have a monopoly on a large scale sexual harassment.