Germany NYE attacks

  On 1/9/2016 at 8:21 PM, Friendly Foil said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 7:57 PM, delet... said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 7:35 PM, Friendly Foil said:

Okay Limpy, here: http://forum.watmm.com/topic/83768-isis/?p=2404928

Now apologize. Apologize or I will report you to the cyber police for continuous bullying.

 

Also, apologize for making me do your work. A lot of effort went into this.

What's going on with all this, hi, cyber police here, sorry mate, I've not been paying attention to the argument.

Limpy has been a gosh darn bully, accusing me of saying things I never ever said. It it SICKENS me.

I should also apologize to you, for telling you to "shut up". That was not okay. But I was just so riled up by all these false accusations. But still: Not. Okay.

Ahh I thought you were having fun underneath the snippy. It's all good man.

 

And limpeh, don't pursue that argument with ff anymore, it's just hurting him for no purpose. Is it worth, 'being right'. Well it's pretty cool being right, but you've got to know when to back off to clear the air, endorse brotherhood, not need to be a bad mother hood.

  On 1/9/2016 at 6:41 PM, caze said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 2:52 AM, chenGOD said:

So I wonder how he feels about the roughly 40% of Americans who oppose gay marriage.

Or the rise in anti-gay assaults and LGBT homicides.

 

What do you think he feels about it? Why are you asking stupid questions, what point are you trying to make?

 

  Quote

 

 

Let's face it - his view is simply the "white man's burden" redux. And we know how well that turned out in Africa, India, and other places that suffered under the colonial yoke.

 

Yeah, that's not his view at all. Not that I agree with his views on foreign policy actually, but they're nothing like old colonialism at all. His views on geopolitics are not relevant to the talk he gave there and what we're talking about in this thread, he is just talking about some objective measure of competing value systems, you can agree with him on that and disagree with him on what to do about it.

 

 

 

Douglas Murray asserts that "western" values are superior. Yet you have large percentages of the population that would deny him his rights (he is openly gay). There has been a rise in violence toward LGBT people in the last few years in the US and the UK, homosexuality is either frowned upon heavily in places where "western" values have come to the fore (like South Korea, or lots of places in Latin America) or they are openly persecuted in places like Uganda.

 

With regard to the old colonial superstructure - I'm referring to a lot of the justification that went on with it - i.e. the export of Western values to "bring civility and modernity to the savages". Which assumed those western values were superior. An assumption just as false then as it is now.

  On 1/9/2016 at 8:25 PM, delet... said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 8:21 PM, Friendly Foil said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 7:57 PM, delet... said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 7:35 PM, Friendly Foil said:

Okay Limpy, here: http://forum.watmm.com/topic/83768-isis/?p=2404928

Now apologize. Apologize or I will report you to the cyber police for continuous bullying.

 

Also, apologize for making me do your work. A lot of effort went into this.

What's going on with all this, hi, cyber police here, sorry mate, I've not been paying attention to the argument.

Limpy has been a gosh darn bully, accusing me of saying things I never ever said. It it SICKENS me.

I should also apologize to you, for telling you to "shut up". That was not okay. But I was just so riled up by all these false accusations. But still: Not. Okay.

Ahh I thought you were having fun underneath the snippy. It's all good man.

 

And limpeh, don't pursue that argument with ff anymore, it's just hurting him for no purpose. Is it worth, 'being right'. Well it's pretty cool being right, but you've got to know when to back off to clear the air, endorse brotherhood, not need to be a bad mother hood.

Apologizing is a good first step in clearing the air. So Limpy...

I will not post further in here, because derailing a thread on such a tragic topic with petty arguments is sick and wrong.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Friendly Foil

  On 1/9/2016 at 8:31 PM, chenGOD said:

Douglas Murray asserts that "western" values are superior. Yet you have large percentages of the population that would deny him his rights (he is openly gay). There has been a rise in violence toward LGBT people in the last few years in the US and the UK, homosexuality is either frowned upon heavily in places where "western" values have come to the fore (like South Korea, or lots of places in Latin America) or they are openly persecuted in places like Uganda.

 

So what? Superior doesn't mean perfect, and treatment of LGBT people in the US and UK/Europe has dramatically improved in the last few decades. Not sure what Asia, Latin America or Uganda has to do with anything he's saying either.

 

  Quote

 

With regard to the old colonial superstructure - I'm referring to a lot of the justification that went on with it - i.e. the export of Western values to "bring civility and modernity to the savages". Which assumed those western values were superior. An assumption just as false then as it is now.

 

Yes, but like I said, that's got nothing to do with what we're talking about here, i.e. immigration and cultural assimilation. Also, it's not an assumption, and it's not false (at least not when talking about certain specific values).

Can't tell if you're being deliberately dense or not - I never claimed they had to be perfect - he's claiming they're superior, I'm arguing they're not. I just posted several links to show how attacks against LGBT are on the rise in recent years (including a 22% rise in the UK), referenced Kim Davis, the percentage of people who oppose homosexual marriage, never mind the governors of various states rolling back gay rights. So not sure how you're going to equate that with dramatic improvement.

Countries in Asia, Latin America, and Uganda (as well as other African countries) were all places that have had "western" values imposed on them - showing the same result in homophobia.

 

Tell me what specific values you think the "west" is superior in. The problem is there's this idea of what "western" values are in your head that don't match up with reality. There's probably also a view in your head of what "islamic" values are that doesn't match up with reality. Because both those labels cover huge populations that will have differing values from each other but also within the two groups. Neither one claim superiority.

"90 % of current immigrants in Germany illiterate"?

 

"300 000 immigrants not registered/monitored/tracked somewhere in Europe"?

 

If that is true isn't that... quite a problem?

 

This source indirectly supports the first piece of info: https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/800-million-muslims-out-of-1-4-billion-are-illiterate-dr-farrukh-salem/

 

NOTE: "" don't mean precise quote in this post

Edited January 9, 2016 by Jev

  On 1/9/2016 at 9:50 PM, chenGOD said:

Can't tell if you're being deliberately dense or not - I never claimed they had to be perfect - he's claiming they're superior, I'm arguing they're not. I just posted several links to show how attacks against LGBT are on the rise in recent years (including a 22% rise in the UK), referenced Kim Davis, the percentage of people who oppose homosexual marriage, never mind the governors of various states rolling back gay rights. So not sure how you're going to equate that with dramatic improvement.

Countries in Asia, Latin America, and Uganda (as well as other African countries) were all places that have had "western" values imposed on them - showing the same result in homophobia.

 

Tell me what specific values you think the "west" is superior in. The problem is there's this idea of what "western" values are in your head that don't match up with reality. There's probably also a view in your head of what "islamic" values are that doesn't match up with reality. Because both those labels cover huge populations that will have differing values from each other but also within the two groups. Neither one claim superiority.

 

You can't be serious here. You really think there has been no progress made in civil rights with regards to LGBT people in the west? Compared to the vast majority of muslim countries where it's still illegal, and in many cases punishable by death?

 

Also, stop trying to change the topic, this discussion has nothing to do with 'imposing' anything on any other culture (aside from silly attempts at imposing foreign cultural norms here in the west, like the mayor of Köln telling women to cover up and avoid strangers).

@Foil

 

I stand corrected...sorry, mate. I somehow confuse certain watmmers still to this day.

 

I used to confuse Alco and Triachus, and Delet and Mcbpete (or however it's spelled)

 

@ Delet

 

I get like 50 listens/day on average...dunno...sorry that you clicked on my tune by accident

If you want I can give you a Skype lesson on how to use a mouse...

 

 

"AHHHHHHH" -Marilyn Manson

  On 1/9/2016 at 10:23 PM, LimpyLoo said:

@Foil

I stand corrected...sorry, mate. I somehow confuse certain watmmers still to this day.

I used to confuse Alco and Triachus, and Delet and Mcbpete (or however it's spelled)

@ Delet

I get like 50 listens/day on average...dunno...sorry that you clicked on my tune by accident

If you want I can give you a Skype lesson on how to use a mouse...

"AHHHHHHH" -Marilyn Manson

It's a touch device, which I don't confuse with a PC. Hence you scroll along and buhblam, boards of Canada fan fiction. Heh

 

Also I'm glad the trouble was resolved. Now if only I had the energy to dismantle chengod's problematic postings, but really after all these years all I want to do is shake his hand, give him an hug and buy the man a beer at a nice pub with a veranda that looks out to a wide horizon.

  On 1/9/2016 at 7:48 PM, Jev said:

So far, the attacks were reported in:

 

Cologne

Hamburg

Düsseldorf

Stuttgart

Berlin

Zürich

Salzburg

Helsinki

Kalmar

 

All of the attacks were reported by victims as committed by Africans or Middle Easterners.

 

No such attacks happened in Helsinki. And according to the National Bureau of Investigation, nothing like Cologne was even planned in Helsinki. But that hasn't stopped the local neo-nazi's from forming street patrols in various cities around Finland to protect the Finnish people, especially (Finnish) women from these alleged roaming rape gangs. Which is funny since these patriots are the first ones to wish rape to any female politicians that call them out for their other racist and misogynist opinions.

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

Source?

 

EDIT: To clarify, deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki informed about those attacks in Helsinki. Can you give a source that disprove his claims or disprove he ever said that?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Jev

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/cologne-violence-suspects-include-asylum-seekers

 

  Quote

 

Finnish police reported an unusually high level of sexual harassment in Helsinki on New Year’s Eve and said they had been tipped off about plans by groups of asylum seekers to sexually harass women.

 

Helsinki’s deputy police chief, Ilkka Koskimaki, said: “There hasn’t been this kind of harassment on previous New Year’s Eves or other occasions for that matter … This is a completely new phenomenon in Helsinki.”

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:02 PM, delet... said:

It's a touch device, which I don't confuse with a PC. Hence you scroll along and buhblam, boards of Canada fan fiction. Heh

 

Also I'm glad the trouble was resolved. Now if only I had the energy to dismantle chengod's problematic postings, but really after all these years all I want to do is shake his hand, give him an hug and buy the man a beer at a nice pub with a veranda that looks out to a wide horizon.

Aww c'mon Delet no need to insult my music (again) just because you accidentally clicked on it

 

I mean, fortunately your insults are very gentle and Delet-ish

 

 

"AHHHHHHH" -Marilyn Manson

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:17 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:14 PM, azatoth said:

No such attacks happened in Helsinki.

 

Source?

 

EDIT: To clarify, deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki informed about those attacks in Helsinki. Can you give a source that disprove his claims or disprove he ever said that?

No, no, you are wrong, because azatoth doesn't feel like there could be a problem. It's clearly those neonazis, in league with father christmas and the league of unsavourily opinioned gentlemen that are the true women haters, the invaders are all cream puffs that must be catered to in any way possible, let me lick your shoes whilst you rob me and rape my wife, please, I insist.

 

/satire postening, so don't take it too hard, pretend I'm an iraqi or something.

 

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:29 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:02 PM, delet... said:

It's a touch device, which I don't confuse with a PC. Hence you scroll along and buhblam, boards of Canada fan fiction. Heh

Also I'm glad the trouble was resolved. Now if only I had the energy to dismantle chengod's problematic postings, but really after all these years all I want to do is shake his hand, give him an hug and buy the man a beer at a nice pub with a veranda that looks out to a wide horizon.

Aww c'mon Delet no need to insult my music (again) just because you accidentally clicked on it

I mean, fortunately your insults are very gentle and Delet-ish

"AHHHHHHH" -Marilyn Manson

I have acccidentally clicked on it many times limpeh, and this is not the first post where I have complained about the problem. As for 'insulting your music, grow a pair (which I'll gentle fondle, hrmm I mean insult), I couldn't give a toss what people say about mine, I'm usually happy that someone cared enough to give it a go, it's a good way to be.

 

Edit: oh fucking hell I pressed it again.

I have to admit that when I read emotional comments like azatoth's I get a similar feeling as if I read the most blatantly ignorant and xenophobic posts by extreme-right supporters.

 

The two extreme camps (naive multicultural supporters and aggressive, truly xenophobic idiots) are really testing my patience at times.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Jev

It is not racist in my opinion to think there might be a major culture clash, and more will come. im in the usa and we are supposedly the most inclusive culture but really people largely stay to their own culture until 2nd 3rd generations. It is not race.,, but it feels like a politically correct race debate. Can't say shit close your mouth PC reaction.

i dont blame people for running away. i dont know why they are running and risking their lives on boats to get to the "best" country, Germany. Id hang out in Tunisia or some camp myself than brave drowning in the sea. what is fueling that desire? rumor?

Edited January 9, 2016 by marf

but his fears are true, do you want neo-nazis to be the guardians of the streets? im sure they are using shit like this to force themselves into relevancy again.

 

Maybe while you and delete take on the "boogeyman" people like aza will make sure neo-nazis stay irrelevant tru these troubled times, work as a team rather than trow emotional insults at each other for no reason, lol

Edited January 9, 2016 by Deer

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:47 PM, Deer said:

but his fears are true, do you want neo-nazis to be the guardians of the streets? im sure they are using shit like this to force themselves into relevancy again.

 

Maybe while you and delete take on the "boogeyman" people like aza will make sure neo-nazis stay irrelevant tru these troubled times, work as a team rather than trow emotional insults at each other for no reason, lol

They are being forced into relevancy because they are so far removed from mainstream delusion that they can see the problem at hand. So they are doing something about it, and as the first on the scene will gain legitimacy in the minds of the waking public. I don't like this either, I don't like any totalitarian or extremist ideology, but am still a nationalist and a patriot and depressed that the immovability of progressive tarded bullshit from the shills in the media, ideologs in the universities and think tanks and their clone puppet people on the streets, is sending us down a very dark path that will lurch us to the far right, and civil war with the invader.

 

-sie-

 

People calling me nuts talking about this five years ago, not so much now, so maybe we can make a breakthrough before its too late and reverse the disastrous policies of the naive, inept and unprecient of mind.

  On 1/9/2016 at 11:47 PM, Deer said:

but his fears are true, do you want neo-nazis to be the guardians of the streets? im sure they are using shit like this to force themselves into relevancy again.

 

Maybe while you and delete take on the "boogeyman" people like aza will make sure neo-nazis stay irrelevant tru these troubled times, work as a team rather than trow emotional insults at each other for no reason, lol

 

Absolutely. There is a big risk that extreme-right (note that neo-nazis are in minimum numbers imo) will get more power from the crisis. And because of the risk it is absolutely necessary for democratically elected, non-extremist politicians to act without political correctness before the crisis gets out of hands and people start ignoring laws in order to feel safe.

 

It is just a matter of time before people get really fed up by the naive, multicultural, politically correct, hippie bullshit and start acting extremely.

 

EU politicians have to make realistic decisions asap or they/we are screwed.

 

This crisis will have consequences of historical proportions (either positive negative or even more negative).

Edited January 10, 2016 by Jev

  Quote

 

Separately, a politically incorrect police report leaked to the German newspaper, Der Tagesspiegel, revealed that more than 80% of the violent crimes registered in Berlin are committed by non-Germans.

 

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6668/germany-migrant-crime-wave

 

PC-caused secrets piss people off big time.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Jev

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

I was calling it an invasion, long before I started watching these YouTube people, I remember the first time I said it here, chengod freaked out, hahhar, I'm probably twice your age deer, that's a long time to see trends and form opinions on things.

 

Plus how many times do I have to state THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT REFUGEES, they are economic migrants, invading on mass because the gates have been undemocratically opened. So drop that emotional baggage from your mind. It's confounding for those of us that are awake to what's going on, and is what is actually driving the momentum to the right. You need to upload a new set of talking points to your mind.

 

peace

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

 

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Jev

are you seriously labelling people who are fleeing a country in a middle of a civil war economic migrants?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Deer

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:19 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 1/10/2016 at 12:02 AM, Deer said:

people still call you nuts, and im glad you are using this opportunity to tell everyone how right you were, congratulations, you just won the shittiest contest ever.

 

--

 

you are looking at it the wrong way delet, your mind has been corrupted by too much sargon, this isnt an invasion, its a hijacking of refugees fleeing a shitty part of the world by extremists scumbags, if you keep calling it an invasion next thing you know the poor old syrian woman who has been living in australia since age 15 and has nothing to do with anything will get beat up, these are the things we should be fearful, and you say thats an exaggeration but...

 

One can argue that soldiers of a state are also "hijacked" by ideologies of their leaders.

 

Anyway, while I agree that we still have to deal with the immigrants as with civilians we should not be afraid to close the borders and deport those who mean problems (not just criminals). Canada and Switzerland have been doing strict selection of immigrants for ages with no evident criticism in mainstream media.

 

80 - 90% of illiterates in a mass of adults is no joke. It is a disaster. It is incredibly difficult to integrate those people and their unfortunate children. The influx of migrants has to be slow enough for selection/integration process to be effective. UN estimates another 3 million people to Europe this year...

 

Europe should discourage as many people as possible from migrating there.

 

 

Integration is a bitch, i live in a town where everyone speaks spanish, every store is spanish, people are lazy and they dont learn english so when they interact with americans, the americans get frustrated, but wtf do you do, ban everything spanish and spanish culture?

 

is it possible to integrate the huge # of people immigrating? how willing are they to integrate? i always believe the best way to deal with this is to have "open to all" citizenship but if you want it you have to learn the language and pass a test or something. Make them fall in love with the american/european dream, it worked in the past

Edited January 10, 2016 by Deer