RIP to WATMM Discussion thread

  On 1/30/2025 at 8:33 PM, Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo said:

agreed

@Rubin Farr why are you face palming that? I would appreciate an elaboration on why you seem to disagree with that statement. (A statement that basically everyone else in this thread agrees with)

Relax guys. Let's have a chat about our future without kicking each other's asses, let's talk this through. 

  On 1/29/2025 at 8:56 PM, dr lopez said:

Ok 5 pages now. Brass tacks.

There is no credible reason beyond simple hubris for Joyrex NOT to pass this active and beloved site on to a new caretaker, individual or collective or otherwise.

Ok counterpoint to this:

• you are underestimating how much work this would be for Joyrex. The tasks would be:
  • deciding who to give it to, or deciding what the process is for the community to decide who to give it to - could take months. Whatever the process or the decision there would be lots of disagreements and drama.
  • transfer domain
  • transfer hosting account
  • transfer adsense account (how to even do that? someone else would have to create a new one and then switch all the widgets to use that instead?)
  • transfer paypal account (i.e. someone sets up a new one and various bits of code need to be changed to point to it)
  • tranfer invision account
  • privacy issues around account details and dms. You could delete all dms I suppose, but then you've got to warn everyone that thats what you're going to do, all of that takes work.
  • documenting or explaining all the little hacks and tweaks and customisations that keep the site running so that the new owners can properly look after it
  • ... given that "even the minimal involvement I have in keeping the site running just isn't something I want to do anymore" I dont see why he'd want to do all that
• He might do all that and then at the next invision upgrade it all gets fucked up by the new owners and goes dark anyway
• He might do all that and then the new owners all fall out or change their minds and sell it to some spamlord
• Joyrex has previously transferred a site to someone else and came to very much regret it
• Literally just said "I wouldn't be comfortable with [someone else] taking WATMM and doing something with it I didn't agree with". Thats a credible reason
• We dont know whats going on in his life, we're in no position to judge what he should or shouldnt be spending time on

Like, this site could easily have just gone dark with no explanation. Things like that happen. We're really lucky to get this much warning.

We've got time to organise another home

i'm perfectly calm, dude

Discourse (not to be confused with Discord) seems like a reasonable fallback option for a proper forum; I hadn't heard of that before. At minimum it seems like it would have the advantage of being massively less burdensome to maintain compared to a hand-deployed forum like this one.

Does anybody with experience with it know if there is any possibility of importing data from an existing forum? (I'd guess not, but who knows.)

  On 1/30/2025 at 10:53 PM, zazen said:

Ok counterpoint to this:

• you are underestimating how much work this would be for Joyrex. The tasks would be:
  • deciding who to give it to, or deciding what the process is for the community to decide who to give it to - could take months. Whatever the process or the decision there would be lots of disagreements and drama.
  • transfer domain
  • transfer hosting account
  • transfer adsense account (how to even do that? someone else would have to create a new one and then switch all the widgets to use that instead?)
  • transfer paypal account (i.e. someone sets up a new one and various bits of code need to be changed to point to it)
  • tranfer invision account
  • ... given that "even the minimal involvement I have in keeping the site running just isn't something I want to do anymore" I dont see why he'd want to do all that
• He might do all that and then at the next invision upgrade it all gets fucked up by the new owners and goes dark anyway
• He might do all that and then the new owners all fall out or change their minds and sell it to some spamlord
• Joyrex has previously transferred a site to someone else and came to very much regret it
• Literally just said "I wouldn't be comfortable with [someone else] taking WATMM and doing something with it I didn't agree with". Thats a credible reason
• We dont know whats going on in his life, we're in no position to judge what he should or shouldnt be spending time on

Like, this site could easily have just gone dark with no explanation. Things like that happen. We're really lucky to get this much warning.

We've got time to organise another home

 

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"We've got time to organise another home"

Wrong, because "we" is not just the people in this thread, it's the people who come back after 10 years and are very welcomed.  It's the people who are not in this thread who matter more.  And who will find out months down the line what happened, and it will be too late for them. 

He should hand it over to the moderators, who if he doesn't trust, why did he make them moderators?  If he wants to keep the watmm.com domain, he can hand it over to the moderators under a new domain.  He can remain as the person who's in charge, but with little oversight, and come down on them with an iron first if he disapproves of their methods of running the site.  As much as I hate moderators, as a concept (because they ban and mute me), I respect all of the moderators here, who are very reasonable people, and clearly Joyrex feels the same

Ok my apologies to @Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo , it was mostly the aggressively bitchy posts I was referring (if I were Joyrex shit like that would only confirm my decision) but you have also made some good points. Cheers and carry on 

  On 1/30/2025 at 9:52 PM, toaoaoad said:

Just gotta chime in on the subject of whether anyone reads old posts:

When it comes to the featured artists, music discussion and new releases forums, YES of course the old posts still hold an enormous value. People, myself included, absolutely do go back and read this stuff. Either we are looking for something specific (and often find it here) or just engaging our own fandom to see what else has happened on the internet around our favourite music artists/releases/labels/genres etc. This site is a hub for all this stuff. It is a huge archive of history where not only are interviews, videos, reviews etc compiled by users but also the actual conversations people had here about it, which we all know is often more comprehensive and "accurate" (ito real people's experience with the music) than reading a review by some tired journalist somewhere.

As a nearly-lifelong Autechre fanboi I can say that one of the most delightful things about Ae is discovering all the "that bit at 5:06" moments in their music. One of the things I have enjoyed most about being part of this community is being able to read threads where other fans are talking about those bits and moments, pointing them out for others to find. (This is more important than ever when we're talking about 90-minute long live sets with a million things going on at all times lol). It is fun and rewarding to see these bits pointed out and go and find them, and be able to share the ones I've found too. Is this super nerdy and fanboyish? Yes of course lol but that's why places like this exist, so don't be a snob about it - you're here aren't you? I don't get to do this in real life. I have approximately one real-life friend who is into Autechre, and not nearly to the extent that we are here. Without WATMM I have no one to ask whether I should listen to Krems or Dublin next, or to find out which of the 14-15 sets have hidden unique sections in the final quarter. This is important, especially when the rest of life is a bit bleak.

And that's just speaking of Autechre. Never mind all the hundreds (thousands?) of other artists/albums/labels that have been posted about and discussed here over the years. I've discovered tons of my favourite music from this very site, and continue to do so from old threads, not just new ones.

So I say if the archiving aspect of keeping WATMM alive turns out to be a burdensome amount of work, I would vote to archive the featured artist forums, Music Discussion and New Releases forums. Genban is legendary too, of course, but not nearly as important to archive, at least in the context of what this site is really all about and why it should be kept alive.

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+1, put far more eloquently than I could manage; this is everything I love about the Featured Artists threads and I'd love to see them preserved. Yes, it's hugely nerdy, but in the best possible sense of that word: nerdiness as deep genuine passion, rather than a commodity.

At this point a lot of the AFX and AE threads are huge, living guides to some of the best electronic music ever laid down, stuff that's just as significant in its way as John Coltrane or Bach or whatever (imo, lol, and I say that as a huge fan of both those artists). Rich/ Shan and Ren's discographies have always felt, to me, like super-deep worlds or landscapes you can explore and get lost in, and WATMM threads are like the best map you could have. Even when written from a place of genuine passion, articles on music journalism websites generally can't go as deep or as nerdy (honourable exceptions excluded- Droid's recentish AE interview comes to mind).

Couldn't agree more with trying to preserve the archives if there is any way we can put together a plan and make it easy and low-drama enough for Joyrex to be willing. It's become ingrained habit that whenever I come across and artist or album I wasn't aware of, first thing I do is google it with "site:watmm.com"

  On 1/30/2025 at 10:57 PM, Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo said:

"We've got time to organise another home"

 

Wrong, because "we" is not just the people in this thread, it's the people who come back after 10 years and are very welcomed.  It's the people who are not in this thread who matter more.  And who will find out months down the line what happened, and it will be too late for them. 

He should hand it over to the moderators, who if he doesn't trust, why did he make them moderators?  If he wants to keep the watmm.com domain, he can hand it over to the moderators under a new domain.  He can remain as the person who's in charge, but with little oversight, and come down on them with an iron first if he disapproves of their methods of running the site.  As much as I hate moderators, as a concept (because they ban and mute me), I respect all of the moderators here, who are very reasonable people, and clearly Joyrex feels the same

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Did you remember there’s a 2nd Admin, at least there was. 

  On 1/30/2025 at 8:54 PM, EdamAnchorman said:

To everyone saying that Joyrex has an obligation to do this or that, and that this place somehow belongs to the members, while I agree with the sentiment, the argument is flawed in that the facts are Joyrex can do whatever the hell he wants.  That's the reality.  It's his creation, he owns it, he's been the primary manager for longer than some members have been alive.

Sure, he has no obligation. But just because he can do whatever he wants, that doesn't mean he should. There's some real Ayn Rand mind fuckery going on to make that purely selfish living in a vacuum anti-social argument actually work.

The fact he's willing to throw this community under the bus, is pretty cold. But I agree, it is what it is. Doesn't make it right though. 

  On 1/30/2025 at 10:53 PM, dr lopez said:

i'm perfectly calm, dude

why are you freaking out in this post?

Why do I suddenly feel a bit like Interstellar? Earth isn’t hospitable anymore and suddenly we have to decide between Miller’s planet and Mann’s planet? Maybe Joyrex will be nice enough to give us the “wormhole” needed to get to the next option…

  On 1/30/2025 at 8:26 PM, Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo said:

dumbass

 had to be you

Who runs the fsolboard? That'd be a nice new home.

  On 1/30/2025 at 11:37 PM, Alcofribas said:

why are you freaking out in this post?

this has got everyone’s emotions running high, I suggest we all chill out and get disgusting with the salsa

  On 1/30/2025 at 10:57 PM, Ivy Zemura yvI oo ii oo said:

I respect all of the moderators here, who are very reasonable people, and clearly Joyrex feels the same

  On 1/31/2025 at 12:01 AM, baph said:

this has got everyone’s emotions running high, I suggest we all chill out and get disgusting with the salsa

 

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Dang, I had forgotten about Lion.

  On 1/30/2025 at 9:28 PM, Silent Member said:

Ok, fine. He has no legal or financial obligation to pass it on to someone else, I guess, but I would argue that he does have a moral obligation to not flush a resource as rich and fun as this down the drain, never to be read or interacted with again, and that's purely from an archival standpoint. As many have already mentioned, this is indeed the greatest neighbourhood pub on the internet, a great and diverse community of shit posters, assholes, crate diggers, lunatics and truly lovely and creative people. I don't necessarily like all of you, but I love you. Braindance is the spice that binds us together in this stew called watmm.

Unfortunately I'm not much of a wordsmith, if I was, I would formulate this more eloquently, but I'm just a dimwitted bloke from Norway. 

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pls don't say braindance 

<- came for the music, stayed for the UFO updates.

  On 1/29/2025 at 8:51 PM, xox said:

Damn.. First Lynch, now this!

my 1st thought when I got this announcement... 

talking joyrex this joyrex that sounds weird and I guess it's not gonna help at all when he eventually read this thread... I'm not saying I don't agree, I actually agree 100% but I imagine he would face it better if we addressed him like hey joyrex this joyrex that... it's like he already did it... he didn't and was probably not thinking right about the implications of such an act... I dunno, reading all the posts in a row feels like an attack or something... again, I completely agree with what u guys are saying, but still...

and here I am also saying joyrex this joyrex that... 

this is how I find out about new music, joyrex please! 

Sean pls 

@prdctvsmcum here u...