Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

  On 11/29/2010 at 4:28 AM, Enter a new display name said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:36 AM, Deepex said:

Kanye is NOT a good sample artist! He takes very well-known, recognizable hits and builds tracks around their chorus. That's not creative, that's the opposite.

Who should I listen to? An angry Aphex Twin fan who's pissed at Kanye for sampling his favorite artist's piano melody? Or Pitchfork's perfect score review?

How about listen to the album?

  On 11/28/2010 at 9:09 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

He has an amazing ear for production, sampling, etc....but his rapping/singing is fucking ATROCIOUS. Combined with the arrogance and hearing everyone on earth literally say he and Lil' Wayne are the greatest rappers of all time (seriously, let that sink in) drive me nuts.

I will not ever understand the appeal of Lil Wayne. Just sounds like a drunk retard to me.

  On 11/29/2010 at 12:35 PM, Backson said:

  On 11/28/2010 at 9:09 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

He has an amazing ear for production, sampling, etc....but his rapping/singing is fucking ATROCIOUS. Combined with the arrogance and hearing everyone on earth literally say he and Lil' Wayne are the greatest rappers of all time (seriously, let that sink in) drive me nuts.

I will not ever understand the appeal of Lil Wayne. Just sounds like a drunk retard to me.

agreed. his lyrics are terrible and his delivery is even worse. that song he has with eminem is embarrassing for him. i guess between him and " 'ye" (lol) it proves that today even more than ever, the hype and lifestyle image mask is way more important than the art itself.

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:36 AM, Deepex said:

Kanye is NOT a good sample artist! He takes very well-known, recognizable hits and builds tracks around their chorus. That's not creative, that's the opposite.

Indeed. Plus, I suspect the samples he chooses are just samples to give him credibility in the music community, not necessarily samples he like or that will fit the music. Case in point, the King Crimson sample in "pOwer". Like, "hey, look, I also listen to prog rock".

  On 11/29/2010 at 4:28 AM, Enter a new display name said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:36 AM, Deepex said:

Kanye is NOT a good sample artist! He takes very well-known, recognizable hits and builds tracks around their chorus. That's not creative, that's the opposite.

Who should I listen to? An angry Aphex Twin fan who's pissed at Kanye for sampling his favorite artist's piano melody? Or Pitchfork's perfect score review?

wtf?

let's attack someone's ability to sample.

its not just sampling, its his production values, he knows how to take something recognizable (ie the chorus0 and make it catchy. for hiphop i really don't see how taking popular and catchy hooks for beats is "bad sampling"

maybe Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is one of the worst sampled albums ever, after all, they sample Curtis Mayfield, as if to say "Look, I listen to soul music too."

on the same note, lets shit on every dance remix of everything ever.

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:48 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:36 AM, Deepex said:

Kanye is NOT a good sample artist! He takes very well-known, recognizable hits and builds tracks around their chorus. That's not creative, that's the opposite.

 

Thanks, somebody FINALLY FUCKING SAID IT.

 

High five deepex.

Yeah seriously, his weakest tracks are the singles anchored by a lazy, pop song sample. I think Simon Reynolds calls it "a sample stain" and said the same about MIA's "Paper Planes"

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

And to join the broader discussion, I don't hate Kanye, I think he is perplexing, frustrating, and the ultimate example of how self-absorbed and moronic (yet not untalented or worthless) this generation is, especially in US.

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:48 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 3:36 AM, Deepex said:

Kanye is NOT a good sample artist! He takes very well-known, recognizable hits and builds tracks around their chorus. That's not creative, that's the opposite.

 

Thanks, somebody FINALLY FUCKING SAID IT.

 

High five deepex.

 

Yeah seriously, his weakest tracks are the singles anchored by a lazy, pop song sample. I think Simon Reynolds calls it "a sample stain" and said the same about MIA's "Paper Planes"

 

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

 

And to join the broader discussion, I don't hate Kanye, I think he is perplexing, frustrating, and the ultimate example of how self-absorbed and moronic (yet not untalented or worthless) this generation is, especially in US.

Asking someone to add something to a mix is very different from not being able to program drumbeats.

Seriously, I can't stand the guy, but its because hes a shitty rapper/singer/frontman, not because he cant make a decent beat.

this thread is lol

fools fallin all over themselves to preface every post with I HATE HIM SO MUCH.

WAAAAANKKKKKKK >:0

i just admire his trolling abilities.

after every single post I promise myself I won't come back to this thread... god damn you yeezy.

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

 

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

Additionally, if i remember correctly, he had T-Pain come in and "teach" him AutoTune for 808's...

Of course, all the white guilt late adopters here will deny and deny, but if anybody had said that outside of the pop spectrum, you'd be shitting yourselves.

It's just two knobs, one you turn to the max, one to the min, use the alto/tenor or low male voice tracking, there you go, singing warbly robot. With the new version, it's just one knob you turn to the max. With the new LITE version, it's nothing, you just load it.

And he needed "lessons" for that.

I've watched clips of him in the studio, "making a dope beats" "on the spot" (pretty much doing the first exercise that drummers do when learning syncopation, and with the most hesitant, soulless, stuttering groove, which is what you'd expect from someone touching an MPC or any form of pad-based sampler for the first time). Not that i expect the finished product to come up in random studio filming, but EVERY time he looks like he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.

To say that he's a remedial amateur producer who is actually too stupid to figure out basic gear, but with an army of talented drones buzzing about making sure to polish his turds into hits is an understatement. Of course, than can be said about any pop act, but in his case everything purports to transcend that. And doesn't.

Let me rephrase that just to be clear: he doesn't DO anything. He goes to the studio, "i want that sample", plays with an MPC in way that makes it look like he's testing it in the shop or something, loudly deems that "a dope beat", puts shutter shades on, then the studio hands figure out what the fuck it is he actually heard in his head, make it, then he raps over it.

And that's where, IMO, his only saving grace comes, in that i like his flow and i find many of his rhymes, allusions and punchlines hilarious and clever. On the flipside, i also find good portion of them to be either ignorant, moronic, or simply... just him shouting "nigga" into a mic a lot. He's brilliant in that savant kind of way, he doesn't really understand wtf is going on, he just spews shit out constantly and some of it turns out genius, because in his disconnect from logic he is sometimes given the opportunity to transcend it in a meaningful way.

He really should stop trying to be Michael Jackson, because he already is. Details aside (he's not a singer/dancer but a rapper, he's not fucked up by his dad but because of the lack of one, he's not as sexually destitute, he's not horribly disfigured/demelanin'd/fully batshit insane yet) he is living exactly the day-to-day life that Michael did.

"Here comes Kanye, let's see how we can turn today's ramblings into something marketable. Show him some candy, rattle some keys, throw him a pornstar, log him onto twitter or something, anything to get him distracted long enough for us to ghost-produce his record."

If at least he was an enchanting bon-vivant who just had these KRAAAAYYZEEE whims every day which in summation ended up as this self-contained WONDERLAND that the army of ghost-writers could use as the driving force behind their writing (like in Michael's case), it'd be cool. But his whims are so fucking predictable, pathetic and late-train hipster that it's a bit maddening. Best case-in-point, above-mentioned "Stronger". He made that RIGHT after losing to Justice at the VMA's, which he was completely unfamiliar with (as he himself states in his less-than-gentlemanly rebuke of Justice's and Simian's win). I imagine right after that he hurried to the nearest lappy, downloaded a shitload of French Touch, listened, deemed it "dope", then sought the biggest, most recognizable, most succesful group in the genre. "Because if, that was, like, dope enough to beat ME, then i sample it, and then i make my own DOPE shit over it (actually, i get timbaland to do it, i can't order a couple of kicks and snares in rhythmic fashion without help and spending half a mil), and then that's BOUND to be the dopest shit around."

I'm genuinely curious how he managed to put anything together when HE was the behind-the-scenes guy, pre-fame and pre-army of human Songsmiths at his every whim. Maybe it's that hip-hop was easier to make back then, though.

You didn't have to "learn" AutoTune.

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

Seriously there's a video out there that shows them in Timbaland's studio discussing how two kickdrum samples "clash". Anyone can find it again?

wait here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_axsY1TvNvo

  On 11/30/2010 at 2:36 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

 

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

 

Additionally, if i remember correctly, he had T-Pain come in and "teach" him AutoTune for 808's...

 

Of course, all the white guilt late adopters here will deny and deny, but if anybody had said that outside of the pop spectrum, you'd be shitting yourselves.

 

It's just two knobs, one you turn to the max, one to the min, use the alto/tenor or low male voice tracking, there you go, singing warbly robot. With the new version, it's just one knob you turn to the max. With the new LITE version, it's nothing, you just load it.

 

And he needed "lessons" for that.

 

....

 

You didn't have to "learn" AutoTune.

Good job taking this 100% out of context.

If you've ever heard T-Pain's singles (you have if you go outside), he uses Autotune more creatively, distinctively, and just plain more often than anybody who's ever heard of the program in it's entire history. He knows how to use it the way that he does better than anybody else who uses it in the same way (most pop stars alive today).

If you want to make an album where you sing in a similar fashion throughout the entire thing and produce it yourself, and expect it to sell millions, it would be a wise decision to at least get a few pointers from him.

The rest of your post has some decent points but this was just silly.

  On 11/30/2010 at 2:48 AM, Barricade said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

Seriously there's a video out there that shows them in Timbaland's studio discussing how two kickdrum samples "clash". Anyone can find it again?

 

wait here it is

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_axsY1TvNvo

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST JUST LEAVE THE 808 IN AND EQ THE SUB OUT OF A SNAPPY KICK AND LAYER THAT.

THAT'S IT.

that wouldn't even be a 6 minute discussion in real time. much less a day-long struggle edited down to 6 minutes.

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:00 AM, Al5x said:

  On 11/30/2010 at 2:36 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

 

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

 

Additionally, if i remember correctly, he had T-Pain come in and "teach" him AutoTune for 808's...

 

Of course, all the white guilt late adopters here will deny and deny, but if anybody had said that outside of the pop spectrum, you'd be shitting yourselves.

 

It's just two knobs, one you turn to the max, one to the min, use the alto/tenor or low male voice tracking, there you go, singing warbly robot. With the new version, it's just one knob you turn to the max. With the new LITE version, it's nothing, you just load it.

 

And he needed "lessons" for that.

 

....

 

You didn't have to "learn" AutoTune.

 

Good job taking this 100% out of context.

 

If you've ever heard T-Pain's singles (you have if you go outside), he uses Autotune more creatively, distinctively, and just plain more often than anybody who's ever heard of the program in it's entire history. He knows how to use it the way that he does better than anybody else who uses it in the same way (most pop stars alive today).

 

If you want to make an album where you sing in a similar fashion throughout the entire thing and produce it yourself, and expect it to sell millions, it would be a wise decision to at least get a few pointers from him.

 

The rest of your post has some decent points but this was just silly.

Look man, you've been posting in this thread speaking all knowingly like "when you wanna make millions you do this and that, it's 100% planned, all smoke and mirrors, popstars are gods that control the world, the illuminati, 9/11 truth!, and god, and the bible, and xenu" and you don't know shit, trust me.

Most creative use of Autotune, ever, was Daft Punk. Before that, of course, Cher. T-Pain is just a self-fulfilling parody. If you were familiar with the program, and you obviously aren't, you'd know that there's not many places you can go with it. Some voices get more interesting results when run through it, some less. Personally, i feel it best fits lil wayne's coarse hurrs and shit. It actually helps to be tone deaf/vocally ungifted, as it guarantees you're more consistently off-key and get a heftier repitching, thus resulting in a more consistently robotic/grainy sound. For example, when you wanna lay done some autotune vocals, you give the singer the autotune's output as their only reference, because if they can hear themselves, and sing even remotely "right", or you put a dry take into autotune, it won't sound like it should. Or at least, it won't sound like the sound that cher invented and we've come to associate with autotune. That's pretty much the only thing you need to know, or be "taught" about it.

"he uses Autotune more creatively, distinctively, and just plain more often than anybody who's ever heard of the program in it's entire history." wow you really get a high boner index from millionaire black entertainers... Or is it just millionaires? Or is it black people? Are you a wigger by any chance? That and the whole "'Ye" thing really stick out and irk me in this whole thing... are you a 15yo girl that watches MTV a lot? I'm not one to damn appreciation of pop staples, hell i have many of my own guilty pleasures (i've had my fair share of lil wayne, lady gaga, rick ross, swizz beats, even kanye, for example, and not "ironically" or someshit, but i wouldn't flock to defend if anybody called any of them a "moron"... they are what they are), but your posts just reek of defensive tirades against troll comments under Bieber videos. Do you read what you write before you post it?

And if we're talking "creatively, distinctively"... those kids doing the "autotune the news" running meme have better mastery of the program than any of these rich idiot savants. At least they learned how to use its midi input function.

You got me on "often" though, T-pain pretty much made his entire carrier off this one gimmick. good job.

Oh, no wait, you're wrong about that too: 90's boybands/girl groups (only subtler)

please STFU forever, at least on this subject

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:27 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:00 AM, Al5x said:

  On 11/30/2010 at 2:36 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

 

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

 

Additionally, if i remember correctly, he had T-Pain come in and "teach" him AutoTune for 808's...

 

Of course, all the white guilt late adopters here will deny and deny, but if anybody had said that outside of the pop spectrum, you'd be shitting yourselves.

 

It's just two knobs, one you turn to the max, one to the min, use the alto/tenor or low male voice tracking, there you go, singing warbly robot. With the new version, it's just one knob you turn to the max. With the new LITE version, it's nothing, you just load it.

 

And he needed "lessons" for that.

 

....

 

You didn't have to "learn" AutoTune.

 

Good job taking this 100% out of context.

 

If you've ever heard T-Pain's singles (you have if you go outside), he uses Autotune more creatively, distinctively, and just plain more often than anybody who's ever heard of the program in it's entire history. He knows how to use it the way that he does better than anybody else who uses it in the same way (most pop stars alive today).

 

If you want to make an album where you sing in a similar fashion throughout the entire thing and produce it yourself, and expect it to sell millions, it would be a wise decision to at least get a few pointers from him.

 

The rest of your post has some decent points but this was just silly.

 

"he uses Autotune more creatively, distinctively, and just plain more often than anybody who's ever heard of the program in it's entire history." wow you really get a high boner index from millionaire black entertainers... Or is it just millionaires? Or is it black people? Are you a wigger by any chance? That and the whole "'Ye" thing really stick out and irk me in this whole thing... are you a 15yo girl that watches MTV a lot? I'm not one to damn appreciation of pop staples, hell i have many of my own guilty pleasures (i've had my fair share of lil wayne, lady gaga, rick ross, swizz beats, even kanye, for example, and not "ironically" or someshit, but i wouldn't flock to defend if anybody called any of them a "moron"... they are what they are), but your posts just reek of defensive tirades against troll comments under Bieber videos. Do you read what you write before you post it?

If you disagree with me that's fine, make your counterpoints but what's with all the personal bullshit? Yes I used to listen to pop music a lot, particularly Kanye West, I still listen to pop music sometimes, I've been a lifelong fan of hip hop etc., calm the fuck down. I didn't attack you personally. I don't mind debating but try and address my points without going on an utterly pointless tirade about how you think I'm such an idiot/wigger/15 year old girl so we can not turn this thread into a whirlwind of personal bullshit and name-calling like so many others.

I'm sorry if you don't think so but I've heard to quite a bit of T-Pain (as you know I am a wigger 15 year old girl and that is what we generally are into) and it is my belief that he has a way with autotune (which I have used myself) that no one else really does. But that could simply be my 15 year old wigger brain failing me.

I have contradicted myself, and in retrospect presented my initial point rather inefficiently, perhaps even stupidly. But you'll have to forgive as I am but a 15 year old female wigger.

MY MAN SAIBOT! Right on! I agree on all points, except that this is the most creative use of Auto-Tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw

And I can confirm that Al5x is infact a 15/16 year old wigger who constantly flexes in shirtless myspace style mirror pictures.

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:51 AM, Deepex said:

And I can confirm that Al5x is infact a 15/16 year old wigger who constantly flexes in shirtless myspace style mirror pictures.

*Flexes*

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:49 AM, Deepex said:

MY MAN SAIBOT! Right on! I agree on all points, except that this is the most creative use of Auto-Tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw

That's autotune? 100% sure? I always wondered. THANKS!

I mean, I can't be 100% sure, but it sure sounds Auto-Tune-y to me. Auto-Tune was released in 1997 and the Come To Daddy EP came out in 1998 so it fits in the timeline.

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:53 AM, Al5x said:

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:51 AM, Deepex said:

And I can confirm that Al5x is infact a 15/16 year old wigger who constantly flexes in shirtless myspace style mirror pictures.

*Flexes*

Look you can use sarcasm all you want and it might redeem you in the eyes of some but fact of the matter is you still gushed all over (and i believe this is verbatim) "'Ye", and t-pain. not in the manner that someone who's casually listened to pop might, but in a manner reminiscent of "GAWD I'M LIEK, DA BIGGEST 'YE FAN, OHMIGAWD". you still said that hilarious shit.

well, i guess you could edit it if you have ekt.

DO THAT, QUICK, destroy the evidence, use some more sarcasm, and continue to appear intelligent.

toodles.

  On 11/30/2010 at 4:08 AM, Deepex said:

I mean, I can't be 100% sure, but it sure sounds Auto-Tune-y to me. Auto-Tune was released in 1997 and the Come To Daddy EP came out in 1998 so it fits in the timeline.

hmm maybe, but by then he probably could also afford all the fancy pitch-shifting and formant-shifting toys out there... 's favorite, the eventide, comes to mind...

mystery still unsolved! (i believe there was a thread about aphex vocal processing a while back, masonic boom trolled the fuck out of it but it was still informative? did i dream this?)

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:04 AM, Lube Saibot said:

  On 11/30/2010 at 2:48 AM, Barricade said:

  On 11/29/2010 at 6:13 PM, joshuatxuk said:

Exhibit A: "Stronger" - Kanye isn't Daft Punk. According to wikipedia: "West collaborated with Timbaland to rework the drum programming and percussion for the final version of the song, which appears on the Graduation album." Seriously, he can't fucking program a fucking drum pattern by himself!?

Seriously there's a video out there that shows them in Timbaland's studio discussing how two kickdrum samples "clash". Anyone can find it again?

 

wait here it is

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_axsY1TvNvo

 

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST JUST LEAVE THE 808 IN AND EQ THE SUB OUT OF A SNAPPY KICK AND LAYER THAT.

 

THAT'S IT.

 

that wouldn't even be a 6 minute discussion in real time. much less a day-long struggle edited down to 6 minutes.

Yeah I remember that vid, and I merely skimmed through it for own sanity.

  On 11/30/2010 at 3:27 AM, Lube Saibot said:

Or at least, it won't sound like the sound that cher invented and we've come to associate with autotune. That's pretty much the only thing you need to know, or be "taught" about it.

 

Although I think the argument that you and the 15 year old wigger girl are having is hilarious, I am so fucking grateful that we weren't stuck with that sound as the way auto-tune was supposed to be used.