A pair of explosions rocks the finish line at the Boston Marathon, injuring at least a half-dozen people.

  On 4/18/2013 at 1:21 AM, chunky said:

republican? hahaha. im more like a monarchist who understands what began in 1914.

 

i tried to explain about michael chertoff but the thread was deleted. please look him up. dont expect people to agree but it would be cool if more people took an interest in what this crazy man is doing with his power.hes similar to the neocons who did the iraq war, basically a lying maniac.

 

Mate the thread literally consisted of about 10 pictures with Chertoff and other "Jews" on them, with captions like "Chertoff and his jew buddies". It was fucking ridiculous.

  On 4/18/2013 at 12:54 AM, vasio said:

I was shocked to see the bomb details being publicized out there so casually, the media is pretty much asking for copycats.

Anyone who wants to can find recipes for tons of different bombs and weapons on the internet.

  On 4/18/2013 at 1:21 AM, chunky said:

republican? hahaha. im more like a monarchist who understands what began in 1914.

 

i tried to explain about michael chertoff but the thread was deleted. please look him up. dont expect people to agree but it would be cool if more people took an interest in what this crazy man is doing with his power.hes similar to the neocons who did the iraq war, basically a lying maniac.

 

i would only use the term false flag if i believed that obama was in on it. i dont believe he is. this is a power grab by homeland security people. their first interest is to a greater israel and likud. they dont care about american people. only finding false reasons to put their opponents in prison. usa is transforming itself into a real tyranny in the style of stalin or henry viii

tsa,fema camps,terroist bombs,patriot act~nasty nasty nasty stuff. it feels like we're getting closer to our trojan horse moment where the gates are opened and our muderers complete their long held intention to exterminate us.

no i meant that micael chertoff is a republican.

so in your mind, republicans/neocons are trying to enact a tyrannical overthrow of the country, and libs/dems/obama are not at all doing anything similar to tyranny. ?

  On 4/18/2013 at 1:44 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/18/2013 at 12:54 AM, vasio said:

I was shocked to see the bomb details being publicized out there so casually, the media is pretty much asking for copycats.

Anyone who wants to can find recipes for tons of different bombs and weapons on the internet.

 

Yes but that wasn't the point, the media planted the seed, made it look so accessible and easy, I didn't need to know it was a pressure cook bomb, never heard of such thing before.They're doing the same that Al Qaeda does, they glorify the killers and give instructions to everyone how to put into practice these acts by reconstructing every step, "maniac killer used this and that item, then entered the room like this and used this, etc, etc..." it inspires more lunatics.

  On 4/18/2013 at 1:21 AM, chunky said:

usa is transforming itself into a real tyranny in the style of stalin or henry viii

I meant to say that it gives inspiration to lunatics not that it inspires more lunatics, either way what it's done is done. Can't imagine this loop being broken anytime soon.

the us is transforming itself into a tyranical state. it's just hard to see these things when we're historically still in the midst of the long term process of it's transformation. And for anyone that treatens the state in a meaningful way now, it is a tyranny.

Still though chunky, you don't do your arguments any favours. And that thread was beyond the pale.

  On 4/18/2013 at 3:08 AM, vasio said:

I meant to say that it gives inspiration to lunatics not that it inspires more lunatics, either way what it's done is done. Can't imagine this loop being broken anytime soon.

In my opinion, If you are going to accuse the news media of inspiring murder, and hold them accountable for it, then you have to hold accountable every other piece of media as well. Movies, music, games, books, magazines, etc.

  On 4/18/2013 at 3:46 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/18/2013 at 3:08 AM, vasio said:

I meant to say that it gives inspiration to lunatics not that it inspires more lunatics, either way what it's done is done. Can't imagine this loop being broken anytime soon.

 

 

In my opinion, If you are going to accuse the news media of inspiring murder, and hold them accountable for it, then you have to hold accountable every other piece of media as well. Movies, music, games, books, magazines, etc.

 

ahaha brilliant! i agree 100%.

Really? News and videogames have the same social responsibility?

the idea is that if seeing the concept of making a bomb on the news might trigger someone to make one themselves, so might a bomb in a video game. how couldn't it? are you saying that ideas can only be transmitted in the one medium but not the other?

how exactly does that work out? explain.

edit- oh and i forgot to mention that the portrayal of violence/bombs/guns etc in video games/movies/etc is actually glamorized, where i don't really see it being glamorized in the news...

  On 4/18/2013 at 4:03 AM, MisterE said:

the idea is that if seeing the concept of making a bomb on the news might trigger someone to make one themselves, so might a bomb in a video game. how couldn't it? are you saying that ideas can only be transmitted in the one medium but not the other?

 

how exactly does that work out? explain.

 

edit- oh and i forgot to mention that the portrayal of violence/bombs/guns etc in video games/movies/etc is actually glamorized, where i don't really see it being glamorized in the news...

Yeah, I also think the argument that one is real life and one isn't is not valid.

If you want to make a bomb to kill people you dont need the news to tell you how to make a bomb, if you have the motivation you'll learn how to make a bomb without the news.

Also, the news are there to report, you can't expect them to play down an event like that, what would you have them do ?, "Marathon in Boston ends in a bang .... and in other news blah blah blah"

look him up in detail and make up your own mind. thats all i want to say. over and out of this thread.

  On 4/18/2013 at 4:03 AM, MisterE said:

the idea is that if seeing the concept of making a bomb on the news might trigger someone to make one themselves, so might a bomb in a video game. how couldn't it? are you saying that ideas can only be transmitted in the one medium but not the other?

 

how exactly does that work out? explain.

No, I'm not saying that. My only question was whether I was reading your and Adieu's comments correctly, that is, if you were making the claim that news outlets have the same social responsibility as fiction-writers.

  On 4/18/2013 at 4:22 AM, luke viia said:

 

  On 4/18/2013 at 4:03 AM, MisterE said:

the idea is that if seeing the concept of making a bomb on the news might trigger someone to make one themselves, so might a bomb in a video game. how couldn't it? are you saying that ideas can only be transmitted in the one medium but not the other?

 

how exactly does that work out? explain.

 

No, I'm not saying that. My only question was whether I was reading your and Adieu's comments correctly, that is, if you were making the claim that news outlets have the same social responsibility as fiction-writers.

 

No I don't, but not because of things like inspiration.

i dont know about this concept of social responsibility. i mean, it isn't written down as a law anywhere, is it? or defined on paper somewhere? so it's just a loosely held concept/opinion, which will differ person by person.. right?

so your concept of social responsibility is just... your concept of it. can you put into words a convincing and thought out argument as to why it is that you think musicians/directors/video game makers can say and do whatever they want, but yet the news people are held to your concept of social responsibility? explain why the entertainment media isn't but news media is. are you saying that a kid seeing a bomb on tv during the news might cause them to make bombs, but playing grand theft auto and getting missions to blow people up couldn't possibly, ever, at all, possibly lead to that also?

or are you saying that even if movies/video games inspire violence too, that's ok because you don't want to give up your video games?

Please stop suggesting arguments that I might hold.

Adieu - I appreciate that comment. I agree with you there, but I'm inclined to agree with vasio that it's unfortunate in some sense to see the news outlets focus on a criminal how-to.

MisterE, you asked if I would "put into words a convincing and thought out argument" - I'd like to ask you to hold yourself to the same standards. And yes, my argument might be, in a nutshell: Entertainment media is known to be fiction by the consumer, the news is known to be fact. People do not generally play a videogame - I'll use New Vegas as my example, as that's what I'm playing right now - and get the impression that what they play can be directly used in the current physical world they inhabit. It wouldn't be sensible. But when the news shows footage of real people dying, then says "this is how to do it," it's a different message entirely.

well i don't know if i would agree with you that it wouldn't be sensible to assume things in video games might apply to real life. in fact i think that's an outright falsehood. plenty of games have realistic portrayals of real life stuff. and they keep getting more realistic with each passing year. so do you or do you not think that people can be influenced by video games, possibly in a negative way? or that they might inspire real world violence? or that any form of fiction can inspire real world violence?

I do think that people can be influenced by videogames. I do think it might inspire real world violence. I do think that any fiction can inspire real world violence.

My claim - the one you're apparently picking my brain to understand - is that fiction and the news do not seem to have the same social function when it comes to influencing people's behavior, therefore it would be nice to see the news avoid this 'how to make a bomb' reporting. This isn't something I care terribly deeply about, so I'll probably stop responding to you soon if you are just interested in "being right." My initial question was just supportive of a value-based worldview I hold. If you can convince me that all forms of media have the same effect on social behavior, I suppose I would be happy to change my mind.

im not interested in just being right, im interested in understanding more fully, your stance that news should be held to a different standard than entertainment. this is how internet conversations work, you say something, and someone might respond asking for clarification.

so you agree that entertainment media can lead to things, but still think that they shouldn't be censored, meanwhile that the news should be censored for fear that them showing something might lead to copycats.

well i don't get why to be so concerned about it with news but not mind it with entertainment. why arbitrarily draw that line, and say 'it's ok if these guys put out a game with a dude shooting/maiming/killing/blowing up people which kids will play, or for this guy to direct movies portraying those things, or for this song writer to write a song telling ppl to kill themselves, because they are entertainers and have no responsibility to the public. they can do whatever lines their pockets, and keeps them in coke money. but the news people, they better be careful about what they say'

it seems arbitrary to me. if you dont want to respond anymore that's fine.

I suppose it would be good to think about the emotional context of people watching this Boston news story unfold, and being told how to make bombs in the midst of all the very-real death and sadness and general heightened fearful state, when we compare it to someone playing videogames. Surely violent media can influence people and make them more aggressive in the short-term, I believe there are a number of studies that demonstrate this. But I'm just maintaining that the news - a very real, very disturbing news story, nonetheless - would be irresponsible for telling people how to make bombs from household items. FTR, I don't know of any videogames that realistically describe how to make bombs from common household items... but I might just be playing the wrong videogames :P

but yeah I am gonna duck out of this thread for now, I just about burned my dinner replying to you, and I require whiskey from the watering hole

i just havent seen much of a convincing argument that there is 'more' responsibility here or there. kids are probably more susceptible to influence, and they don't watch news, but they do play grand theft auto. how could anyone know what effect that will have in the long term?

on the other hand i do agree that news has some kind of responsibility. i kind of doubt to what degree they actually showed how to make these bombs though, and as deer pointed out, the info is and has always been available online. i'm going to have to doubt that the news program gave step by step instructions, but the internet probably has them somewhere. isn't it part of the news' job to report that houshold items can be used for this stuff, so that people can be aware?

well, news isn't supposed to be entertaining, whereas videogames and other media are designed to do just that. the fact that most news programs are entertaining is an indictment of the cultural climate and market forces that produce them, not the need for those programs to be objective and thoughtful.

  On 4/17/2013 at 11:56 PM, MisterE said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 6:39 PM, jules said:

 

looks like the basement dweller white guy type i thought did it from the jump...

of course you did

what's that supposed to mean?