Star Wars Episode VII *MAJOR SPOILERS*

  On 12/30/2015 at 3:55 AM, joshuatx said:

 

  On 12/30/2015 at 1:47 AM, bitroast said:

 

  On 12/30/2015 at 12:13 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 12/29/2015 at 7:47 PM, Rubin Farr said:

LOL, he calls Disney "white slavers", you can see he regrets selling Lucasfilm now. IMO, Lucas should have directed Episode VII, then sold to Disney. It would be more in tone with the previous Six Films, the three major actors were already on board, the new characters would have been established, and the visual language of the new trilogy as well. He could have even just produced it, and gotten a director for hire like Abrams to come in and take liberties, to a point. To me, this movie feels soulless, like a fan film with a $200 million budget. Feel free to disagree, I'm sure some will.

 

This motherfucker Lucas....

 

The Star Wars films, his 'children' or alternately his 'ex' as he so passionately refers to them, were whores for him for decades; he literally designed and modified them to be cash cows. The passion he speaks of, speaks with, is highly subject to distrust imo. He's been more a pimp than a father or a loving husband.

 

Not that his cashing in on them negates the possibility that he could also be emotionally attached, but to at every turn do so much to try and eke out every penny from them just makes me not believe his 'pain' or whatever. He's just pissed he's not making the cash from the newest films.

omg that interview. looks like he's on the brink of breaking into tears.

and i sort of get it. the prequels were daring new films that were brimming with collaborative efforts and whole new stories. 7 is more/less a remake of a movie he made 40 something years ago. and just about everyone hates the prequels and just about everyone loves the new film.

 

but man. theres just no denying that the prequels are 6 hours of boring, soulless drivel.

 

 

This.

 

Everyone also redirects any defense of Lucas to how much money he's made but that's a bullshit charge imo. Disney is making money off it now, JJ is set and man, didn't Harrison Ford get the biggest cut from Force Awakens? Of course it's steered him for much of his career but I seriously doubt he's torn about selling it for that reason. He's no longer officially part of the franchise as it enters into it's biggest resurgence yet.

 

I loved episode VII but the more and more I reflect on it, it really was quite derivative, embarrassingly so in some parts, and when you compare that to the undertaking of the Prequels 20 years ago I can appreciate his effort, even if those films have aged terribly and are a mess. It was still a massive stab at an entirely different storyline with new characters. TBH I doubt there's never going to be a film that can match the original trilogy with a very detached and/or original storyline. The best EU plots would never appeal to a massive audience. I have hopes 8 and 9 might get close to achieving truly worthwhile developments in the overall storyline (I hope) but I'm skeptical...and they will still likely hinge on Luke for at least one more movie.

 

I read a really interesting article several weeks before the movie came out that made essentially the same argument - Episode VII gives the fans what they want, but ultimately doesn't challenge the viewers, while the prequels were Lucas' attempt to create something new for the Star Wars universe. The problem of course being that we know how the prequels essentially are going to end - with Anakin "dying" before Obi Wan and being reborn as Vader.

I'd give Episode VII a 7/10 - entertaining, well filmed, good story line. I'd probably give most of the series the same rating, with maybe Empire sneaking in a bit higher.

they had 3 films to work with tho, for the prequels. episode 7 is one film and already has "luke i am your father" level reveals, as well as establishing the groundwork for future surprises and twists and turns.

with 3 films to work with, i mean, knowing that anakin turns to the darkside benig the end beat doesn't mean that you don't have leg room to still have fun with and entertain your audience by introducing new surprises. they introduced a new character, darth maul, and had him do NOTHING. the writing behind the prequels is just down right lazy and sloppy.

the sheer fact that kylo ren is a disgruntled angsty teenager being lured into the darkside but is a totally engaging and interesting character. it's pretty much a look into the anakin skywalker we never got with the prequels.

The prequels aging terribly? Wait... What!? I thought it was broadly accepted that the prequels were huge piles of shit right from the get go. The aging process had nothing to do with their shityness. The only aging process associated with the star wars series is that of an old grumpy man adding new cgi bullshit to older movies. Did he turn senile? Well, yes, I believe he did. A while ago.

  On 12/28/2015 at 11:51 PM, Joyrex said:

I think it will end up hitting 2 billion, but not beat Avatar's $2,787,965,087 worldwide gross, again the majority of which came from overseas box office.

Heh, I'm not so sure!

Another 80 million in one day? It's barely slowing down!

With this showing all the way into February I think we might actually see it close to Avatar's 2.8B.

I wonder, with how much hype there has been about the movie, how many people are just holding off on seeing it due to overcrowded/busy theaters? I always watch movies at the theatre towards the end of their release, to avoid the completely packed theater.

I think with all of the hype and how busy people think the theaters might be, we wont see the diminishing dailies we expect.

edit: there's not much value in this particular vein of discussion I suppose, just curious is all!!!

  On 12/30/2015 at 6:58 AM, bitroast said:

they had 3 films to work with tho, for the prequels. episode 7 is one film and already has "luke i am your father" level reveals, as well as establishing the groundwork for future surprises and twists and turns.

with 3 films to work with, i mean, knowing that anakin turns to the darkside benig the end beat doesn't mean that you don't have leg room to still have fun with and entertain your audience by introducing new surprises. they introduced a new character, darth maul, and had him do NOTHING. the writing behind the prequels is just down right lazy and sloppy.

 

the sheer fact that kylo ren is a disgruntled angsty teenager being lured into the darkside but is a totally engaging and interesting character. it's pretty much a look into the anakin skywalker we never got with the prequels.

Episode VII is essentially the same film as Episode IV tho. And to be honest, I found Kylo Ren about as interesting as Anakin in Episode III

  On 12/30/2015 at 7:28 AM, goDel said:

The prequels aging terribly? Wait... What!? I thought it was broadly accepted that the prequels were huge piles of shit right from the get go. The aging process had nothing to do with their shityness. The only aging process associated with the star wars series is that of an old grumpy man adding new cgi bullshit to older movies. Did he turn senile? Well, yes, I believe he did. A while ago.

The prequels were not universally panned when they came out. Critics gave mixed reviews, even Roger Ebert gave it a decent review.

Another part of the article argues that the films wouldn't receive nearly the hate or scrutiny if they weren't Star Wars. To me it says a lot that supposed fans of the movies (not you) are more willing to watch the red letter reviews than the actual movies. I dunno, I mean, the original trilogy was good and all, but hardly among the cinematic greats. I'd wager if the fanbois looked as hard at the original trilogy, they'd find the same number of stupid plot holes. I'd also wager that if say, the order of appearance of Jabba and Jar-Jar was switched (i.e. Jar-Jar was in the original trilogy and Jabba appears in the prequels), the reaction for Jabba would be the same as it was for Jar-Jar.

I actually like the 3 before this one despite their weaknesses. This episode seems less expansive, less visually cinematic and not really as daring. The nostalgia and aim to keep things true to the originals maybe the problem. It's a lot of fun but why not push things forward more? Not just in pc casting (which is good) but in technology and scope.

  On 12/30/2015 at 8:06 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 12/30/2015 at 6:58 AM, bitroast said:

they had 3 films to work with tho, for the prequels. episode 7 is one film and already has "luke i am your father" level reveals, as well as establishing the groundwork for future surprises and twists and turns.

with 3 films to work with, i mean, knowing that anakin turns to the darkside benig the end beat doesn't mean that you don't have leg room to still have fun with and entertain your audience by introducing new surprises. they introduced a new character, darth maul, and had him do NOTHING. the writing behind the prequels is just down right lazy and sloppy.

 

the sheer fact that kylo ren is a disgruntled angsty teenager being lured into the darkside but is a totally engaging and interesting character. it's pretty much a look into the anakin skywalker we never got with the prequels.

 

Episode VII is essentially the same film as Episode IV tho. And to be honest, I found Kylo Ren about as interesting as Anakin in Episode III

 

 

i would agree on one level. and i totally DO agree. and am disapointed that it was a remake and not a brand new story.

but having said that, it still has plenty of new material to sink teeth into. the characters of rey + finn. the scenes on the falcon. the scenes on planet with the bar. the scenes on the ice planet. as much as the over all story was the same as IV, there was still plenty of new stuff surrounding that new story that i was ultimately happy with the film and MUCH happier with this film than anything going on in the prequels.

totally just personal opinion here but man. kylo ren > prequel anakin x1000

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The prequels were not universally panned when they came out. Critics gave mixed reviews, even Roger Ebert gave it a decent review.

I think we have different ideas on what it means to not age well. When I think of stuff not aging well, I think of CGI which looked great at the time of release, but crappy from a perspective where CGI has improved considerably. So in my ears, when I hear people say the prequels have not aged well, I hear something like that in hindsight with what we know about moviemaking at this point in time the prequels were bad movies, but when it was released, they were up to par with movie making in general. Which I think is bullshit. They weren't up to par at all.

The irony is that the redlettermedia review had those clips from the "making of" which clearly showed that during production it was already clear how big of a pile of shit the prequels were going to be. Similar to the hobbit, i guess.

Even back then. It's not that Hollywood got better at making movies since the release of the prequels. Movie logic hasn't improved since the prequels. It might even be the reverse. Since the prequels, one might argue that studios thought they could get away with making franchise cgi bullshit without putting effort into making a good movie (cough transformers cough).

And the "mixed reviews" argument in my opinion doesn't mean that the prequels were fine movies at the moment they were released. Even Ebert admitted later on that his review was (way) too positive. There was way too much hype and hope surrounding those prequels.

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Another part of the article argues that the films wouldn't receive nearly the hate or scrutiny if they weren't Star Wars.

Seems like a half arsed argument to me. If it wasn't Star Wars:

- it wouldn't have received the attention (positive or negative! why would people pay attention to some anonymous bad movie?)

- it wouldn't have gotten the viewers/turn out

- it wouldn't have any expectations to live up to

- it would have been forgotten like many other B-rated movies

it would have been a movie like water world. expensive to produce, but flopped hugely. and soon to be forgotten. another example where the aging process is not that relevant.

Yeah - we'll have to see how Episode VIII plays out - though things seem to indicate it will be good. If it's just a rehash of Empire though...

For me I'd say Ren was a little more interesting than Anakin but the actor didn't really do anything for me.

edit: @goDel - ah, I misinterpreted what you meant about the not aging well. I didn't feel the CGI was that bad in the prequels, but could be just me.

I think the argument is that if they weren't star wars, the expectations wouldn't have been so high, and thus the negative reviews wouldn't have been so harsh. Compared to a lot of SF drek, they're not bad movies.

Anyways, I find them entertaining, in an escapist sort of way. Just my opinion though (obviously).

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edit: @goDel - ah, I misinterpreted what you meant about the not aging well. I didn't feel the CGI was that bad in the prequels, but could be just me.

euhm....thanks but that was not what i was saying. the cgi thing was supposed to be an example to explain what it means to me when something hasn't aged well. i didnt assume you were saying the prequels didnt age well because of the cgi.

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I think the argument is that if they weren't star wars, the expectations wouldn't have been so high, and thus the negative reviews wouldn't have been so harsh. Compared to a lot of SF drek, they're not bad movies.

this contradicts the point of the mixed reviews at the time of release? nevermind though. there's no point in discussing this. like you say, time will tell whether the new star wars will hold up. i think we can both agree that the current succes at the box office says little about how the movie will be perceived in 5 or 10 years from now.

Another good article on answers the novel provides that were skipped over in the movie, like what happened to Ren? What was the situation between Han and Leia? Why was The New Republic in such disarray? It also sounds like Snoke has been around since the Prequels:

http://mashable.com/2015/12/29/force-awakens-novel/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#eFYv8zHO6Pq7

I think there's little point in sticking to those novels as the writers of the new movie have already explicitly said they paid as little attention as possible to the existing canon. Forget about the existing canon, I'd say.

@26.00 mins The writer on how he used existing canon:

https://www.youtube.com/8cZUHQTBGBE?t=25m58s

  On 12/30/2015 at 10:32 AM, goDel said:

I think there's little point in sticking to those novels as the writers of the new movie have already explicitly said they paid as little attention as possible to the existing canon. Forget about the existing canon, I'd say.

this is the novelization of the movie genius, maybe read the link first

also, regarding the DVD screener leak currently terrorizing Hollywood, there is supposedly only one screener of TFA, and it was sent to the astronauts on the ISS, LOL. that could be gossip, but it wasn't sent to critics or Academy voters for consideration.

my bad...

+

haha! existential

One thing I liked about the new film is how the various ships fly, they look like they have real weight to them - the tie fighters being more agile than the x-wings, the falcon seems to have a lot more momentum to it's movements because of the weight. Nice touch.

  On 12/30/2015 at 12:42 PM, psn said:

SWEET watch. found the vice style editing so god damn cringe inducing but then its actually not all that bad and totally sweet actually.

  On 12/30/2015 at 6:58 AM, bitroast said:

they had 3 films to work with tho, for the prequels. episode 7 is one film and already has "luke i am your father" level reveals, as well as establishing the groundwork for future surprises and twists and turns.

with 3 films to work with, i mean, knowing that anakin turns to the darkside benig the end beat doesn't mean that you don't have leg room to still have fun with and entertain your audience by introducing new surprises. they introduced a new character, darth maul, and had him do NOTHING. the writing behind the prequels is just down right lazy and sloppy.

 

the sheer fact that kylo ren is a disgruntled angsty teenager being lured into the darkside but is a totally engaging and interesting character. it's pretty much a look into the anakin skywalker we never got with the prequels.

I like Kylo as well. Adam Driver was excellent. Whoever came up with the idea of just having him rage out randomly and actually seem emotionally torn versus just "Derp I'm Evil Derp" deserves kudos. True villains should be fascinating and he was.

The Siths in the prequels were quite lame. Darth Maul was mysterious and novel enough to a least have impact but Grievous and Dooku were duds.

  On 12/30/2015 at 7:28 AM, goDel said:

The prequels aging terribly? Wait... What!? I thought it was broadly accepted that the prequels were huge piles of shit right from the get go. The aging process had nothing to do with their shityness. The only aging process associated with the star wars series is that of an old grumpy man adding new cgi bullshit to older movies. Did he turn senile? Well, yes, I believe he did. A while ago.

Yeah I misspoke. they didn't age poorly, I just grew up and realized how lame it was. And as the Redlettermedia reviews highlight, it's so dependent on CGI it just looks inorganic and limp. It's a 6 hr 1999 era video game/pc game interlude scene.

Episode I = "cool podracing, good obi-wan casting, and darth maul at least makes up annoying kid, jar jar, mos eisley suddenly looking 10x bigger and more modern, and all the other bullshit" episode II = "well at least III should be good" and episode III was decent but anti-climatic wrapping up of a wasted opportunity to showcase anakin's past. I would too argue that Hayden Christensen wasn't the reason either, in fact I think he's a decent actor with not just shitty lines but absolutely no direction in front of green screen.

One of the biggest triumphs of Episode VII, for me anyway, is how much it looked and felt like the original sequels in aesthetics, props, costume style, and to lesser extent the cinematography. Even the little buttons in the Imperial torture room were akin to those in Episode IV some 40 years later.

I am nostalgic and have a very personal liking of the old school sci-fi look and feel of the originals, and it's something the even the EU comics, video games, and novels maintained mostly until the Prequels. Shadows of the Empire is the cutoff really. Ironically everything in the prequels looks newer, as if it's a retrofuturistic past. This arguably makes sense if you look at IV-VI being a post-Empire dystopia, with slick Imperial equipment versus old beat up Rebel stuff VERSUS a pre-Empire peacetime era of tech, but the problem is the CGI in I-III makes everything look new and slick and artificial in general, not retro at all. Force Awakens reset all of that though. They did their homework.

i would agree but also go as far as to say that darth maul was also a dud.

  On 12/30/2015 at 2:35 PM, Rubin Farr said:

http://youtu.be/_hmKM7xeoPI

Never. gets. old.

  On 12/30/2015 at 3:42 PM, bitroast said:

i would agree but also go as far as to say that darth maul was also a dud.

Maul was an interesting but terribly underutilized character - had he been given some reason for existing other than just being Sidious' heavy, it might have been more interesting.

Lucas should have started out Anakin as a young man, not a little boy, and the whole romance angle, his fall from grace, and transformation into Darth Vader (which also should have happened much sooner, like around Episode II, with III being more of how the Jedi were exterminated).

I wonder if Disney would dare re-do the prequels? Given the right writers, actors, and directors, I bet they could do a better job than Lucas.

Also, LOL at how salty Lucas is in this Charlie Rose interview: