I am now convinced that capitalism is evil

  On 12/10/2024 at 1:08 PM, chim said:

Mangione manifesto dropped. 

https://archive.is/2024.12.09-230659/https://breloomlegacy.substack.com/p/the-allopathic-complex-and-its-consequences

cringey bits yikes, fucking kids these days... but that stuff about his mother, if that's all true (very possibly is), is horrifying and i can very much see how he was radicalized by that. at least he had the brains to understand it's the system not the specific doctors/nurses/staff...but he just as easily could've turned his gun toward any number of politicians, lobbyists, etc. who allowed the system to devolve into the monster it is over the last....idk, 50 years? the guy he shot was not doing good, for sure, no doubt about that (idk if it was posted in here but he was under investigation for insider trading as well), but executing the one leaves so many others out of the equation which are just as evil/corrupt/harmful if not more so.

What soul-crushing stuff about his mother.

Cannot help but feel the health insurance industry should be held accountable for the crap they're doing. 

longish article on substack from Robert Evans about the alleged shooter and his journey to violence.. "radicalized by pain" and how he doesn't fit in some left/right box but had thoughts on a lot of things popular with young men these days. culture is pretty weird for young people who are paying attention to all this shit. it seems strange to have all that shit in the head as part of what a young person thinks about.. 

https://shatterzone.substack.com/p/alleged-ceo-shooter-luigi-mangione

  Quote

 

Luigi followed a lot of accounts on Twitter that are wildly popular with young men, like Joe Rogan. He listened to Jordan Peterson and Tucker Carlson but also had cogent criticisms of their arguments and presentation.

 

This is not the kind of radicalization pathway our media is good at discussing or analyzing. The things Luigi read and the people he interacted with online absolutely influenced what he did and how. But Bosspotatoness is not some Nazi on 8chan trying to provoke a shooting spree for the lulz. He’s a random dude angry about the same things 70% or more of the country is angry about and expressing a lack of faith in any peaceful way forward.

If you read this post in its entirety, as Luigi did, you can’t miss the pain there. Anxiety and horror at the inevitability of climate change, and the looming knowledge that everything good and green on this earth is being fed into the bloody maw of an industry concerned only with maximizing profit.

 

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I really don't want to peek into his manifesto; can someone please succinctly explain the situation regarding his mother?

  On 12/10/2024 at 7:08 PM, EdamAnchorman said:

I really don't want to peek into his manifesto; can someone please succinctly explain the situation regarding his mother?

it's more like a blog post. it isn't some huge endless rant on the system. less than 10 mins read really.

his mother has some kind of neuropathology. still undiagnosed. excruciating pain. she basically can't walk because of the pain. no treatment, apart from some medicines to help alleviate the pain. the insurer didn't want to pay for the extra scans that might have helped finding the diagnosis. nor do they want to pay for other treatments which are more leftfield. something like that. but it's better to read yourself. 

  On 12/10/2024 at 7:17 PM, Satans Little Helper said:

it's more like a blog post. it isn't some huge endless rant on the system. less than 10 mins read really.

his mother has some kind of neuropathology. still undiagnosed. excruciating pain. she basically can't walk because of the pain. no treatment, apart from some medicines to help alleviate the pain. the insurer didn't want to pay for the extra scans that might have helped finding the diagnosis. nor do they want to pay for other treatments which are more leftfield. something like that. but it's better to read yourself. 

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Thanks.  It's not necessarily the length that's keeping me from reading...  I know that I have a type of personality where once I see / read / hear things that deeply disturb me, it is hard for me to get out of that mindset for some time and so I avoid situations where I might put myself in that type of mood.  I don't know if that manifesto would do it, but just staying away from a potential trigger.

  On 12/10/2024 at 1:08 PM, chim said:

Mangione manifesto dropped. 

https://archive.is/2024.12.09-230659/https://breloomlegacy.substack.com/p/the-allopathic-complex-and-its-consequences

when mentioning Maximus from Gladiator(2000) Luigi made a point to italicize Gladiator 1. This is a key detail imo as he wanted to highlight that he was referencing the original film . It should be noted that Gladiator 2, by all accounts a steaming pile of Hollywood horseshit, had it’s theatrical release on November 22nd, 2024 which is only 2 days before Luigi’s arrival inside the big apple where his plan began to hatch. 
 

How shitty IS this movie? And has anyone heard from Ivan since he left a review completely avoiding the content of the film and how it made him feel and instead merely cited the huge expenditure incurred in drinking 2 beers and a Red Bull. I think we need to do a wellness check.

All shit posting aside the stuff about having to hear his mother in torment akin to something you would see in an Exorcism film is incredibly fucked. That would drive me fucking insane too, especially when compounded with chronic back pain. Sad fucking situation but it’s also really sad to think about those two sons of the CEO who have had their trauma blast on every media platform only to see it be met with scorn from the public. That’s gonna fuck them up no doubt. Still though, there is no doubt that UHC has to be held accountable and played a major part in this. They placed the interest of their shareholders miles ahead of the service to their customers and can add another murder to their books for Q4. Way to go guys!

  On 12/10/2024 at 9:00 PM, Hail Sagan said:

All shit posting aside the stuff about having to hear his mother in torment akin to something you would see in an Exorcism film is incredibly fucked. That would drive me fucking insane too, especially when compounded with chronic back pain. Sad fucking situation but it’s also really sad to think about those two sons of the CEO who have had their trauma blast on every media platform only to see it be met with scorn from the public. That’s gonna fuck them up no doubt. Still though, there is no doubt that UHC has to be held accountable and played a major part in this. They placed the interest of their shareholders miles ahead of the service to their customers and can add another murder to their books for Q4. Way to go guys!

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Furthermore, if Thompson had a sudden change of heart and turned face somewhere along the way, he wouldn't have been CEO much longer. These people are nestled deep into the Matrix and only where they are by "virtue" of their actions and policies. But yeah, sad for the kids. One can only hope that they develop an understanding along the way, but it's far more likely that they will grow up to detest the public in return. 

..and somewhere around there my sympathy runs out. The outpouring of real families sharing the horrifying consequences of claim disputes, learning that in UHC lingo "patient expiration" is a cause for denial reversal (i.e your family may be sent your life-saving equipment only after you die as a final F.U.) is enough to want to see the whole health insurance business and its perpetrators burn. It's the most bizarre thing to see from a distance, in a country where a life-saving acute appendectomy, two week hospital stay & all the medication needed didn't run me far north of $100. 

  On 12/10/2024 at 7:08 PM, EdamAnchorman said:

I really don't want to peek into his manifesto; can someone please succinctly explain the situation regarding his mother?

he simped for his sick mother so hard that he decided to ragequit. To feel good about it, he had to rationalise his emotional drives. He did an unconvincing job.

His mom is described as the victim; but this goes both ways. She had him by the balls with her needs. It appears they were close and he was living with her? This is of course detrimental for a man.

tldr: he tried to be the perfect son and failed.

apparently that first manifesto may not have been authenticated. I saw this one online, and it contains quotes in it (like calling the healthcare ceo a 'parasite') which were quoted by mainstream news outlets in America. It is not really a manifesto, it is just a single paragraph saying that he acted alone and some brief thoughts about corruption in American healthcare system and about life expectancy in America. Looks like the thing was transcribed online from a handwritten spiral notebook that was found on the alleged shooter? The authenticity of this one seems just as dubious, but the fact that words from it appear in American news outlet reporting on it make it seem more credible than the first one imo

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/luigis-manifesto

  Quote

“To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.”

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raises the question where the other one come from. fake? or another note but focussing on his mother?

thing is, it makes a lot of difference when you read about someones pain/suffering and their dealings with the insurance industry. if you leave that stuff out, you'll end up with a "o, he's just another sicko" kind of narrative. it's the stereotypical good-guy/bad-guy stuff. next thing you know the CEO will end up being the hero/good guy of the story.

My bet - absolutely no policy changes will come about as a result of this murder*, a bright young man will spend a long time in jail, and the US healthcare system will continue to be something that needs to be burned to the ground and remade with actual health in mind. I have little sympathy for the victim, he chose to be a part of the absolute fuckery that is the US healthcare system. His kids and partner - it sucks for them.

that's the "copy-cat"-scenario. more incidents will follow. i'm actually surprised it has taken so long for this one to happen though. it probably takes a smart cat to go beyond the "death threats" stage and pull it off. luigi was the explorer inventor. now the sheep will follow. until something does change the "bloody" health insurance industry.

it's been curious watching how the media is approaching this. some really stinks of some reporting/messaging manipulation by, i'm assuming, corporate interests...tho it may be the reporters/etc. pre-empting the higher-ups editing by just keeping in line with how/what info they're even stating.

i know this sort of thing isn't new in general nor in the US, but it's been interesting watching it unfold in real time.

i laughed out loud when i saw this clip live yesterday morning, from a ' ' ' ' f o r m e r ' ' ' ' FBI guy:

he's deflecting to 'make this about ghost guns' 

'we're getting a deep sense that people have horror stories about their insurance' - wtf does that even mean? pure political deflection tactic, restate/acknowledge then talk about what you want to

'the CEOs say this is a wake up call for them! ...' me, briefly going, wow is this being handled realistically? '...they're saying they didn't want security but now i do!'  fuck right off, i lolled with that shit. i hope they can't sleep at night, same to this fucker. snakes.

I hope this movement against health insurance (and larger underlying issues) gains more momentum mostly in nonviolent ways.

This morning I had a moment of irony. Remembering the 2nd amendment thing. “We the people” were supposed to have guns in order to be able to deal with some kind of tiranny, right? Well, guess what, this whole health insurance industry is one huge tyranny. Would be fun if Luigi’s lawyer frames it this way. In terms of the constitution, Luigi was doing what he was supposed to do. 
 

Proving health insurers are like a tyrannical king  acting against the interests of “we the people” sounds doable

#wishful thinking

#american dream

#imnotalawyer

#giveluigiamushroomandaflower

I know I’m going to get pilloried for this but…

I think the guy raises some interesting questions. Can’t read any replies since I don’t have a Twitter account anymore but yeah…

  On 12/11/2024 at 4:20 PM, chenGOD said:

I know I’m going to get pilloried for this but…

I think the guy raises some interesting questions. Can’t read any replies since I don’t have a Twitter account anymore but yeah…

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i actually don't agree. this is boilerplate concern trolling. right out the gate he's spewing nonsense. mangione wasn't "allowed" to assassinate anyone, he is in police custody. "is it acceptable to steal a ceo's car?" lmao come on. comparing a janitor to a ceo is a really captivating use of this guy's tenure as philosopher 

Are you guys saying that we should have a Bolshevik style revolution but that the end goal should be a common sense reform to the constitution that tries as best as possible to prevent corruption and special interests from running all aspects of our society (instead of the end goal being communism, which I honestly do not like very much)? If so, I am truly shocked and even a little bit appalled to see such suggestions being made on the idm forum! There is no place for advocating violence on the idm forum! For shame! 
 

I am sure that these parasites are going to eventually realize the harm that they are doing and will change their ways. Give them some time, you guys!

  On 12/11/2024 at 5:22 PM, decibal cooper said:

Are you guys saying that we should have a Bolshevik style revolution but that the end goal should be a common sense reform to the constitution that tries as best as possible to prevent corruption and special interests from running all aspects of our society (instead of the end goal being communism, which I honestly do not like very much)? If so, I am truly shocked and even a little bit appalled to see such suggestions being made on the idm forum! There is no place for advocating violence on the idm forum! For shame! 
 

I am sure that these parasites are going to eventually realize the harm that they are doing and will change their ways. Give them some time, you guys!

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i suspect america would do things differently and it'd be a struggle for the end goal of some kind of swedish/netherlands style socialism vs racist fascist type kings of different regions of the nation. probably tech bro oligarchs running their own little countries or something.. but america would do a really bloody thing i suspect as the bloodlust is palpable at times and people forget themselves very easily and jump on board with things quite rapidly.  i think it'd be more like 1780s france reign of terror w/guillotines than bolshevik or leninist style executions of masses of bureaucrats.  though.. who knows.. there's a lot of americans who can't differentiate between the person at the counter of the DMV and the secretary of defense/state/hud/health/or whatever cabinet position exists. people are prone to being very opportunistic in a crisis and given the opportunity to shoot their neighbor or local city council person and have that action swept under the rug would be appealing to some of the psychos in this country. 

  On 12/11/2024 at 5:15 PM, Alcofribas said:

i actually don't agree. this is boilerplate concern trolling. right out the gate he's spewing nonsense. mangione wasn't "allowed" to assassinate anyone, he is in police custody. "is it acceptable to steal a ceo's car?" lmao come on. comparing a janitor to a ceo is a really captivating use of this guy's tenure as philosopher 

Right, obviously he wasn’t legally allowed to assassinate the guy, but people cheering this on seem to be of the mind that it’s fine because “rich, CEO, health insurance”. I think the prof is using the term allowed as in, the public allows it. As a counterpoint, almost no one (rightfully so) is cheering the murder of Jordan Neely, even though he was apparently acting in a threatening manner  

The janitor is a little bit of hyperbole for sure but what about the actuaries? They’re usually the ones actually denying the claims. They open their tables and determine if paying out ba denying is more beneficial to the company. Does the CEO operate sole executive function? Or are other executives also responsible for the decision making that led to the policies United Healthcare has. If so, should we be out murdering them?

I want to reiterate, the US healthcare system is all kinds of fucked up, but celebrating murder is pretty abhorrent, even if the victim is a pretty garbage human. 

  On 12/11/2024 at 5:43 PM, chenGOD said:

I want to reiterate, the US healthcare system is all kinds of fucked up, but celebrating murder is pretty abhorrent, even if the victim is a pretty garbage human. 

for me the take away is "that'll happen" when there's 300 million guns in private hands and the system we live in is cruel and profit driven at every opportunity. it's extremely rare that members of the elite/ruling/capitalist class are held accountable for bad behavior, fraud, theft, scams, negligence etc... so, we shouldn't be surprised when someone comes to their own moral and ethical conclusions that lead to violence. modern trends of isolation from all things and lack of community and solidarity only reinforce such conclusions. america edges more and more towards a fuck around and find out type system where it dares someone to risk one thing or another. 

btw, seems he 3d printed a lot of his gun except for the slide and barrel which are not serialized and can be bought in various ways.. pay cash at a gun show or shop or ordered on line. 

  On 12/11/2024 at 5:43 PM, chenGOD said:

Right, obviously he wasn’t legally allowed to assassinate the guy, but people cheering this on seem to be of the mind that it’s fine because “rich, CEO, health insurance”. I think the prof is using the term allowed as in, the public allows it. As a counterpoint, almost no one (rightfully so) is cheering the murder of Jordan Neely, even though he was apparently acting in a threatening manner  

The janitor is a little bit of hyperbole for sure but what about the actuaries? They’re usually the ones actually denying the claims. They open their tables and determine if paying out ba denying is more beneficial to the company. Does the CEO operate sole executive function? Or are other executives also responsible for the decision making that led to the policies United Healthcare has. If so, should we be out murdering them?

I want to reiterate, the US healthcare system is all kinds of fucked up, but celebrating murder is pretty abhorrent, even if the victim is a pretty garbage human. 

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i think it would be a much more valuable use of a tenured professor's time to ask these questions about the current power structure in which such questions are actually relevant, and not stroking his chin about online reactions to a single incident that is basically unprecedented. literally one guy has done this.

i don't really get this discussion about who we should be murdering. let's focus on the systemic suffering and death that the US healthcare system is actually "allowed" to inflict upon innocent people. that's where the outrage should be. seems crazy to me to be upset about how rude it is that people don't give a shit about a dead ceo or whatever. tbh i continue to be shocked this kind of thing does not happen more frequently. the pain that so many americans suffer from idiot greed is unimaginable. very low hanging fruit to make this into a thought experiment about which individuals should be held accountable for a systemic injustice.